Jeep Big Dana 44 Locker (Limited Slip)

[Blown7]

In the occasions to start new tech threads on this site I usually have a "common thread " when I do.
Today as I was rolling thru Dealer Connect ( it's a secret how I get on there :tooth
I went to the 2008 Viper Service tech and parts side,
and from preliminary research I'm finding that the 2008 Viper rear axle is also a 226 size (the same as the rear on the SRT8 Grand Cherokee).
Actually the 2006 is also the same size but has a "older generation" Limited Slip.
The 2008 is called a 'Visco Lok" and I think I'll be giving my good friends down at Mopar Supercenter a call Monday to order one to inspect.
If this is a drop in swap this would be a very economical limited slip swap.
If anyone has a Viper rear laying around let me know.

I'll let you know how this will shake out.

Jeff

 

[GGreek5]

In the occasions to start new tech threads on this site I usually have a "common thread " when I do.
Today as I was rolling thru Dealer Connect ( it's a secret how I get on there :tooth
I went to the 2008 Viper Service tech and parts side,
and from preliminary research I'm finding that the 2008 Viper rear axle is also a 226 size (the same as the rear on the SRT8 Grand Cherokee).
Actually the 2006 is also the same size but has a "older generation" Limited Slip.
The 2008 is called a 'Visco Lok" and I think I'll be giving my good friends down at Mopar Supercenter a call Monday to order one to inspect.
If this is a drop in swap this would be a very economical limited slip swap.
If anyone has a Viper rear laying around let me know.

I'll let you know how this will shake out.

Jeff

Jeff, would this interact well with the 4wd on the Jeeps??

 

[6.1luvr]

Very interesting find! Looking forward to more info when you find out.:thumb:

 

[Blown7]

Jeff, would this interact well with the 4wd on the Jeeps??

A limited slip shouldn't be a problem, but then again......... :dunno2: at this point, we are working on FULLY disabling the ESP but still having the ABS only. So I can say definitely before summer we'll have this taken care of.

J

 

[MatFab]

A limited slip shouldn't be a problem, but then again......... :dunno2:

J

Pretty cool little find.. :salut:

 

[Blown7]

BTW the other site is down and for those of you that didn't get my mass email, "the package has been delived to "UV"

J

 

[MatFab]

BTW the other site is down and for those of you that didn't get my mass email, "the package has been delived to "UV"

J

I got it.. That county folk must be happy now.. ha

 

[Jim383]

If the posi unit will fit in our carrier and our gears will bolt up to it were ok. If not the only thing you need to find out is what gears are available with the viper unit as the viper has 3.07 gears.

 

[HEMISFEAR]

Very interesting find! Look forward to more information.

 

[MatFab]

If the posi unit will fit in our carrier and our gears will bolt up to it were ok. If not the only thing you need to find out is what gears are available with the viper unit as the viper has 3.07 gears.

Gears are a hell of alot easier to find than a posi unit though.. That would be the least of my concerns but definently something to think about :rock:

 

[Jim383]

Gears are a hell of alot easier to find than a posi unit though.. That would be the least of my concerns but definently something to think about :rock:

Gears arnt as easy to find as you think. It that was true then the lx cars would have them. There are a few posi units out there but theres no gears made for them.

 

[MatFab]

Gears arnt as easy to find as you think. It that was true then the lx cars would have them. There are a few posi units out there but theres no gears made for them.

Hmm did not know that. I know of a few local places that can custom make gears in the detroit area so I figured it wasn't an issue other places.

 

[Blown7]

If the posi unit will fit in our carrier and our gears will bolt up to it were ok. If not the only thing you need to find out is what gears are available with the viper unit as the viper has 3.07 gears.

You would use the same gears from the Cherokee, that's what makes this interesting, if you remove your old differential carrier, remove the ring gear, check side clearance in housing, bolt on stock ring gear to new carrier and reinstall. That's it .No need to mess with the pinion gear!

.
J

 

[KING]

You would use the same gears from the Cherokee, that's what makes this interesting, if you remove your old differential carrier, remove the ring gear, check side clearance in housing, bolt on stock ring gear to new carrier and reinstall. That's it .No need to mess with the pinion gear!

.
J

very true, now get on it:thumb2: this will be very cool, I like the way you think.:rock:

 

[Viper Specialty]

Honestly, Stay FAR, FAR away from the 03-06 Viper "Hydra-Lok" differentials. The Vipers have had nothing but problems with them. The 2008 GKN Visco-Lok looks very promising, but also keep in mind the aftermarket support for the Viper differential currently available, including Quaife, Ricardo and the older Dana Track-Lok diffs from the 92-02 cars. The Quaife, as well as the Dana Track-Lok from 92-02 (especially 00-02) have proven to be bulletproof, regardless of what kind of power is thrown at them.

This of course, assuming that these diffs are found to be compatible.

PS- The Viper ring gears can be had in 2.97, 3.07, 3.33, 3.55, 3.73 and 4.11

PPS- Regardless of what kind of Viper innards you guys may choose, stock or aftermarket, we can set of some kind of a bulk purchase if you would like.

PPPS- I can get my hands on a Viper Carrier for testing, though it would likely be a Hyrda-Lok or be damaged (unusable)

 

[Blown7]

Honestly, Stay FAR, FAR away from the 03-06 Viper "Hydra-Lok" differentials. The Vipers have had nothing but problems with them. The 2008 GKN Visco-Lok looks very promising, but also keep in mind the aftermarket support for the Viper differential currently available, including Quaife, Ricardo and the older Dana Track-Lok diffs from the 92-02 cars. The Quaife, as well as the Dana Track-Lok from 92-02 (especially 00-02) have proven to be bulletproof, regardless of what kind of power is thrown at them.

This of course, assuming that these diffs are found to be compatible.

PS- The Viper ring gears can be had in 2.97, 3.07, 3.33, 3.55, 3.73 and 4.11

PPS- Regardless of what kind of Viper innards you guys may choose, stock or aftermarket, we can set of some kind of a bulk purchase if you would like.

PPPS- I can get my hands on a Viper Carrier for testing, though it would likely be a Hyrda-Lok or be damaged (unusable)

Excellent! A broken test part would be fine I'm just looking to see if it would fit the pumpkin.

Any idea if the Hydra Lok would be the same size as a 2008 model?
Also any idea on the axle shaft spline count and size?

Jeff

And yes I would like a carrier to test,

 

[Viper Specialty]

Excellent! A broken test part would be fine I'm just looking to see if it would fit the pumpkin.

Any idea if the Hydra Lok would be the same size as a 2008 model?
Also any idea on the axle shaft spline count and size?

Jeff

And yes I would like a carrier to test,

-I will see if I can dig up a broken carrier this week...

-Yes, the Dana Track-Lok (92-02), Hydra-Lok (03-06), GKN Visco-Lok (08), Quaife, and Ricardo are all interchangeable. The only difference was the change from 3/8 to 7/16 ring gear bolts in either 00 or 01, cant recall exactly, though the Track-Lok is available both ways, and the Quaife is shipped with 3/8, so it can be machined or run as-is to fit both sizes. The Hydra-Lok and Visco-Lok are only available as a 7/16 as far as I know.

-Dont know the axle size/spline on the carrier side, never needed to figure it out as all Vipers utilize the spline count/size configuration. I will put in a call to Unitrax on Monday, I am sure they will have it handy.

In Short:
-Quaife (Torque Biasing, 3/8 or 7/16 bolts)
-Dana Super-44 Track-Lok (Limited Slip, Traditional Locker, 3/8 or 7/16 bolts)
-GKN Visco-Lok (Speed Sensing, Fast Acting, 7/16 bolts)
-Ricardo (Speed Sensing, Median Performance, MUCH Stronger than Hydra-Lok, 7/16 bolts)
-Dana Super-44 Hydra-Lok (Speed Sensing, Slow Acting, 7/16 bolts)

I have to be honest with you, I think a Quaife or Track-Lok may be the way to go in the Jeep. The Ricardo, Hydra and Visco are all Speed-Sensing diffs, they require a maximum rotational speed differential wheel-to-wheel in order to activate their locking functions, and a minimum differential speed to keep the locker engauged. As you already know, the Jeep is set up to react to wheel speed differences, and I would expect, at least for street driving, that the brake biasing feature may still activate with a speed sensing diff, at least some of the time. The Torque Biasing Quaife or the true limited-slip locker style Track-Lok may be more able to keep wheel rotational speeds equal in very-low traction conditions to aid in keeping electronic interference to a minimum.

PS- Not sure how the Jeep is set up, but keep in mind that the Vipers utilize internal snap rings to keep the axle stubs attached to the carrier when the diff is together, and also keep in mind that in order for the Quaife to be installed, the stubs or u-joint spline shafts need to be drilled for threaded attachment to the quaife, as the quaife is sealed and cannot use snap rings. I am not sure how the GKN is configured, haven't pulled one apart yet. This may or may not be a consideration with the Jeep, as the shafts may be unable to fall out of the carrier anyway being a solid rear configuration.

 

[Blown7]

Excellent.

The aftermarket stuff looks like the way to go, I don't think the axle shafts need to held in place with snap rings I think they are aomewhat "full float" I'll have to ask Builder Bill.
Keep me informed on the status of any broken carriers.


Jeff

 

[cobrakid]

excellent info and work on your guys part.

 

[BuilderBill]

Excellent.

The aftermarket stuff looks like the way to go, I don't think the axle shafts need to held in place with snap rings I think they are somewhat "full float" I'll have to ask Builder Bill.
Keep me informed on the status of any broken carriers.


Jeff

"Full Float" it is.
Bill