Weekend at the dyno what went wrong

RestoMod
This weekend I took my car and had it dyno my results were 365 hp and 354 tq. My entire build 6.1 Hemi, 727 torqueflight/ported and polished intake/ TTI long tube headers/ 180 therostat/SLP underdrive pulley/3:55. Gears sure grip/power steering delete pulley/ B & M 2400-2800 stall converter non lock up, 90 mm TB, cold air intake, catch can, Cam specs Intake Duration 267 Lift .583 Exhaust Duration 270 Lift .566. After the guy finished tuning and dynoing he car he told me not to get wrap up with the number the car is more than likely making 420hp and to keep in mind i don't have a lock up converter. My question is what does a lock up converter do that a non lock up converter will not? I based a lot of my build off of what other people who have done with LX cars and small upgrades here and their and they always come up with at least 420 in hp and something tq some a lot better I'm trying to figure out were I went wrong is it components I didn't put some vendors names on here so I don't cause doubt in their product but I just want more power and a lot more then what I got. Worst case i was suppose to make 415hp to 430. The best was 425 to 440. The dyno was a dynojet dyno if that help any.

 

1) Your tuner is absolutely correct. DO NOT get caught up in a number. Dyno machines purpose is to "Tune" your motor to its fullest, not to provide a number.

Most/All tuners know how to tweek the machine to produce a high number. This is called "Dyno Queen".

What matters is how that tune is put to the ground (Strip/Street).

Many variables can come into play during a dyno pull. Air, Ambient Air, engine temps, was the machine calibrated correctly... this goes on and on. Also depends on the tuner himself.

Did you use the Diablo canned tune?

Did your tuner use CMR software or tune from the handheld?

I would like to see the dyno chart. This usually tells the story.

 

Sounds like a Mustang Dyno. I have a sheet from my old SRT that was pretty lame from one place but would do over 400 everywhere else. At the track the car would shine though.

 

For the reading impaired. lol :hug:

 

Here is the Dyno sheet. What do you guys think? I'm in Georgia temp was in the 90 to 100 degrees this past Saturday.

 

Dynos are for tuning......the track is for bragging......dynos can be real heart breakers......too many variables affect dynos...case in point.....I installed a cam and ported heads on my former 06 SRT8....dyno claimed 30hp gain...track claimed about .7 second decrease in qtr mile....no way 30 hp would give a .7 decrease....that would require 70+HP....

 

First thing that pops out at me is the stock market lines through the pull. Tune needs to be adjusted.

Second thing that pops out is the pull ends between 5500 - 5750 RPM. OEM RPM limit is 6200 RPM. You are losing numbers.

Third: Where is the A/F graph? Need to see that A/F.

 

Next time you should ask for SAE/Smoothing 5. It's usually considered the most accurate, and takes out the little peaks or bumps you see in the graph. You can have spikes also that aren't accurate either. And also, as Ron said, the numbers stop at about 5600 to 5650, and the HP was still climbing.

 

Ron, this is a resto build, no CMR here. Dunno what engine management he's using though.

Along with the early dismissal of the runs, you can't compare your car to an LX. It's a whole different animal, even on a dyno. Different style converter, transmission, drive shaft, rear end....all the things that gobble up hp. On the LX cars, it's 65-70 worth, on your car it may be 100 hp.

Also as stated about the other many variations in dynos themselves, operators, and their owners maintenance and calibration practices.

Way to many things varying and differences in the lx platform and your resto car.


Look at it like this, you now have a baseline number for any future plans on adding power. This is your litmus sheet for that. That, and tuning are what dynos are for, nothing else.


BTW, what is max advance and A/F are you running?
How soon do you have full timing come in?

 

Depends on the engine management system. My 33 Hot Rod will have a stand-alone 6.1 run by a Mopar PCM with Diablo tuning. Johan is going to CMR the snot out of it.

 

Yes. I would expect a resto to dyno lower. The SRT8's (even with an automatic) have a very respectable drive train loss somewhere around 15%?

You could always pull it back out and put it on an engine dyno :thanks:

 

People I want everyone to know that this was my first time having the car dyno so a lot of the question you guys are asking I don't have the answer to them. I figure the company dynoing the car would tell me everything I needed to know but from some of the question you guys are asking I see they didn't. I'm learning a lot from everyone so next time everything will be better or at least I will have more information than now.

Did you use the Diablo canned tune?

I have a Diablo Trinity it was in the car when the guy was tuning the car but I'm unsure if he used it or not. I was sat in a waiting room until everything was complete I saw the car on the dyno and he had a big monitor station beside the car. The first time the PCM was tuned was by b&g Chrysler and he gave the 6.1 flash and that's it. Then Stu at inertia sent me a few email tunes to help get me running after a few mod's I completed. The PCM is a 2005 5.7 Ram 1500 manual drive train pcm. The system is a stand along set up I don't have a Tcm or anything like that to control the trans. The tuner also told me that the guy who tune it last was very safe with the way he was tuning the car and he rewrote the fuel table or something like that. For the most part kept saying to not get wrap up with the number I understand that now. All I'm trying to get now is all the information I could have asked for and what to ask the next time I upgrade in parts and tuning.

Did your tuner use CMR software or tune from the handheld?

Don't know

Third: Where is the A/F graph? Need to see that A/F.

I didn't get any graph the only thing I receive was the dyno sheet.

Dunno what engine management he's using though.Different style converter,
transmission, drive shaft, rear end....all the things that gobble up hp. On
the LX cars, it's 65-70 worth, on your car it may be 100 hp.

Torque converter was a B&M stall converter non lock up 2400-2800 stall rate
Stock drive that came with the car in 1966. It's a plymouth belvedere if anyone is wondering.
Rear end 8 3/4 3:55 gears posi or sure grip what ever you want to call it. I was told posi is a chevy term and sure grip is a mopar term.

Look at it like this, you now have a baseline number for any future plans
on adding power. This is your litmus sheet for that. That, and tuning are
what dynos are for, nothing else.

I totally agree with this and this weekend i'm taking it to the track and finding out what kind of numbers she will put down.

BTW, what is max advance and A/F are you running? Don't know
How soon do you have full timing come in? Don't know

 

I found a photo of the guy and how he had everything setup when he dyno the car maybe this helps maybe not but here they are.

 

I would get some logs with the Trinity and send them to a good CMR Tuner to make sure everything is controlling okay and tuned correctly.

..

 

That is one heck of a sleeper!

 

Thank you I have still got to find some way to make more power maybe stoker or supercharger

 

Good advice.
Get some logs while you're on the dyno next time and send them to [email protected]. Also shower him with as much information as you can with the application. At least have him look over it. If you do indeed need tuning send a donation to that same address via Paypal, and he will take care of you.

Did you ever get your fueling issue resolved?

 

Yes I got the fuel issue taking care of it was the fuel tank or pump depending on how you are looking at it. I called Rock Valley and purchase a tank with the fuel pump built into the tank that supports up to 600 hp and from that point on everything has been good. I hold 60 psi at the fuel rails at all time. I have wot it in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. When i took the old tank down. When I say old i mean a year old tank and the external fuel pump. I connected it to a power source and watched the fuel pump out of the tank the pump didn't squirt fuel out it just kind of rolled out it didn't have a lot of pressure or power I guest. This new system work great and would have prevented me from replacing fuel lines, fuel pressure gauge, two fuel pumps, two fuel filters, and sending unit. Advise to anyone building a restomod don't try to cut any corners when it come to the fuel tank or fuel system when i first put everything together i was told to buy this tank and i didn't i got the external unit and it worked great for a stock setup but when you throws mod into the setup it can't maintain pressure like the in tank system.

 

Sounds like that fuel pump was set up for a carburated application, they don't need much fuel pressure at all. EFI is a totally different story.

 

Well the following weekend I drove the car roughly about 70 miles @ between 60 to 70 mphs. Well when i got near the paint and body shop to get an estimate on what it would cost to have the entire car repainted. My fuel system shit the bed again. The fuel rails wouldn't hold any fuel pressure. The same problem i have been having for now about 4 or 5 months maybe longer. Well I towed the car back home and I'm back to square one again. I purchase the BBK aftermarket fuel rails and still same problem. It would idle for about 2 mins then loses pressure. Purchase the areoequip fuel regulator installed it in the engine bay to regulate pressure soon as it leave the rails to maintain 60 psi. Ran a return line from the regulator back to the tank. Still the same problem!!! At this point i almost gave up but a friend asked have i checked power to the fuel pump? Well at the time I told him the vehicle starts and runs so i have power. The power runs from the battery to harness into a relay then to the tank. He told me just straight wire your fuel pump to the battery and see what happen hell I didn't have anything to lose I have at this point 2000 in fuel parts trying to fix this problem. PEOPLE it has been power the entire time something about that relay was stopping power or allowing some power to a certain point or something. I drove the car Saturday until Tuesday when I had to check back into my unit and haven't had a problem at all. I have been WOT multiple times. Long distance cruising trying to cause a problem and nothing. I spent 2000 and i really believe something was wrong with that relay the entire time. After giving it all the hell it can handle for those 4 day i know i got it solved this time. I'm calling HOTWIREAUTO.com tomorrow and asking whats the cause and effect if I continue to bypass that relay. When i swap the relay to other location to determine that's it's faulty it worked fine but if I run the fuel system with that relay involved it's work for a short period of time then problems after problems.