Probably gonna be a long post so sit back and grab some opcorn:. I was having problems with my blue plate leaking but mind you the car was running perfectly it was pretty much tuned for leaks, lol. Everything was right where it should be, boost (19 spike) fuel (about 11:3 afr), kr (between 0-2),EGT's (about 1600 at redline) etc. but I still had these damn leaks. So I decide to take the plunge and buy the AGP hard pipes with an HKS BOV. After the install I did a boost leak test and also found I had a pretty severe leak on the rubber part of the black WGA line. After all of that is said and done I start to do some data logging and a dyno run and find my car is leaning out to all hell but I blamed that on the higher boost from the lack of leaks. I also found that my wideband is way off for some reason and I haven't had a chance to replace the sensor yet. Anyway as part of the hard pipe install the red line is capped off. Now when I first go into WOT (spiking 19) I have 0 kr but as the rpm's increase I have seen kr's around 5* somtimes as bad as 8*. To see if the ECU was pulling timing due to overboost or actual knock I went and filled up with some 101 octane (the mix was probably 60% 101 40% 91 in the tank). The kr went down to the 0 to 2 range. I'm not throwing any codes or anything just pulling buttloads of timing. So here is the question(s): Could the lack of a TIP reading on an 05 be causing me issues or could the boost level be causing this? or is there an option 3 that I am missing? My mods for reference. stage 1 ecu AGP hard pipes w/HKS thermal o2 back exhaust mopar CAI AGP wga (set just snug enough to keep the flapper from rattling) plugs are NGK 4306's set to .035" gap in case someone wants to know
I dont know a whole lot. But I was told that at 18.25psi the stage 1 will start pulling timing unless u have a afcII or dtech. etc... I didnt see that on ur mods list so maybe thats what it is, ur running to much boost.
I would gap them lower since youa re running a ton of boost. .032. How many miles are on the car? Running a ton of boost on the stock turbo will kill it prematurely.
I also have an 05 with Stage 1 and bolt-ons. If your running the green and black line off the solenoid then you also want to be running the white and red line off the solenoid. Those reflect what the pcm is seeing and is one thing the pcm uses to correlate with boost. Now if you were running your wga off pcm controlled boost then you wouldn't need the red line. At 19psi your pulling timing. With my setup currently with the little cool weather we've been having at 17.3-17.5psi spike I've been seeing lean conditions by redline around 11.3-11.6. Mind you this is untuned, my SAFC is zero'd out across the board. I'm seeing no knock and timing is good. My AFR's are in the safe range currently. As far as spark plug gapping. You want to largest gap possible without spark blow out for peak performance. Everyone's cars acts differently and the gap range varies from as low as .026 to as high as stock .050. Usually I say start around .040 if you have a decent amount of bolt-ons. If you feel spark blow out then gap lower to .038 and keep going down from there till you find the sweet spot. Really I don't see the need to go lower then .032 if your on stock turbo.
The agp hard pipes don't have a nipple for the red line any suggestions on where I should tap into for the "new" redline? When you mention the spike you are seeing are you reading from what the map is seeing or what the boost gauge is telling you? I ask because I'm not sure I fully trust mine (boost gauge that is), i was going to buy the one off mighty whitey if mike ever gets around to it (cough cough) lol :grin:
Hmmm I couldn't really say as for a new source for the redline. As far as I know its just a boost/vac reference line so maybe it will work by t'ing into one of the vac line on the tb/tb spacer... I don't know if that will work though. My boost gauge is a Autometer 30/30. Its hard to read exactly where its spiking to on the Autometer, those little dashes just doesn't quite do it for me lol. The spike readings I posted is what I saw on my Scangauge in turn what the PCM is seeing.
I thought to tee off the tb too but in the install instructions it says not to do that because it will cause a vacuum leak. I was thinking about trying the blue line again but first I will see if i can get the boost back down. The numbers I quoted were read from the gauge so i will have to see what the scangauge says on the way home tonight.
I don't understand how it would cause a vac leak but the instructions might be right. Check the Scangauge and let me know the results. It seems to be more accurate.
Ok I did some logging on the way home. Boost --17.3 on the spike in 3rd. Timing--even in open loop mode (3-5psi range) I was pulling 2 to 3* of timing at low rpm's. I was thinking I could use the blue line since its not being used for anything anymore. Thoughts?
At inital spike (WOT) you will probably see timing around 19 and it goes up from there. Running a hose from the T to the blow-off is an open vac source so that portion is correct. The blue line is a boost source as far as reference. Because the blue line nipple or the green line nipple on the turbo can be used when running an aftermarket wastegate. So by the instructions it seems you can run a line from the solenoid (red line source) to the nipple on the turbo of where the blue line was.
I should be able to pull it off the middle solenoid and move it over so I'll do that and reset the ecu. I'll post up some more once the ecu has a chance to relearn the wga and let me get some pulls in.
dont let the tip see vac u will throw codes and u really dont need it on a S1 cause i pulled mine off like 1.5 years ago with my S2 and yes i have a 05
Ok well blue is a line off the turbo so I should be fine there unless the turbine somehow figures out a way to spin backwards. :Grin: So you disconnected your tip and everything is fine? Hmmmm still doesn't answer my timing issue, any ideas?
yea im not using it at all and no lines and no issues and where is your timing at though and also if u run real real rich u will get knock also do u have a 180* t-stat
He's running his AGP wga on pcm controlled boost with a bleeder mod. He's S1 so he won't throw any over boost codes caused by the TIP. He needs to run it if he's running on pcm controlled boost. goats is running his setup that way because he's running a 50 trim. Only line I have connected is my white line (TIP sensor line) all other lines from the solenoids have been removed. All sources say to keep this line connected on 05's so I did so. I'm running an FM (Forward Motion) off PCM Controlled boost and I'm running a JMB Pipe with the HKS BOV. Stage 1 plus other bolt-ons on stock turbo. On my car, I don't see the reason to run the white line still as its boost source was the redline. But like I stated I only kept it because time and time again I've read all these threads that say to do so. As for your timing, with S1 at initial WOT your timing will be around 19 and as the rpm's increase your timing should be around 23.5 or so. Idle you will see 5-12 around there. Cruising in the 35-45 or so. Unless the issue lies in the bleeder mod and running the AGP wga on pcm controlled boost.
Yup that pretty much sums it up thanks figs. Its a quick fix so I will swap on the blue line and see if anything changes if not I'll reset the ecu and go from there.
Update: I hooked up the blue line and nothing changed. I did do some data logging to see what my timing advance was and when the spike first hits I am at about 23* falling to about 20 by redline. Next up I reset the ecu and then try gapping the plugs to .030" possibly not in that order.
