Hey guys I have a few questions regarding timing on the Jeeps. What is stock timing when vehicle is under 90%+ load ? How many degrees of total timing are you guys seeing with a tune(Either B&G tune or CMR/Predator) ? My last question is in regards to how timing is picked up on these vehicles, Is there a crank sensor ? Thanks John
Keep the answers coming guys. Thanks BTW- Im going to pop my hood and look further, Timing cant be off the cam since it makes 2 revs for every single rev of crank, right? Is the crank sensor only way this vehicle knows timing ? Thanks Again
Hey stroke going off of what my dashhawk display's. im seeing anything from 19-28 wot and i have no tune..Is the dashhawk that acurate?
This is a very hard one to answer with a accurate answer due to the fact that there are many tables with authority that can modify total timing, ETC temp, IA temp,ST KR,LT KR,TM Tables,MBT timing,WOT Timing,etc.. A modified calibration will have more timing but you can data log it on different days and depending on tempuratures you will get different results.. I can do a custom calibration with a specific flat line timing number acrcoss the board, which I have done for Drag Race only packages.but I don't recomend for street use since all factory temp based timing saftey margins are eliminated. If you need a certain timing number ask you DCX tuner to give you a custom tune which will give you the results and timing number at WOT you are looking for..Hope this helps..
I have the B&G stage 2 - here is a dashhawk log I did while on the freeway. I was at wot at approx 40 seconds and 105 seconds - both times from 80 to 100+ mph. As you can see, knock retard shoots way up and timing goes way down. Is this normal, Dave? By the way, I am not sure what the units mean for the knock retard plot..
Yup, that's very normal. The KS's do a great job of knocking down advance :boxed:. I whole bunch of us used to think that what we were seeing was a false knock. Turns out, after the release of the prediator and with guys shutting off the knock sensors and blowing motors, it's really there. Some CMR tuners are finding that these motors don't like a lot of advance, 21-23 degrees seems to keep everybody happy. But not every tuner feels that way.
Thank you all, the information in this thread has given me the information I needed.(Almost all) Its only almost all because I dont know where the timing pickup is coming from. I know its crank sensor,possibly cam but where are they located ? I got as far under the vehicle as I could and tried to look for the pickup for crank but wasnt able to find it. When I get it on a lift I will look further to see exactly what and where everything is. Here is why Im asking for this info: 1st- I see guys saying dont run more than 175 shot without a tune. Im not the type person that believes what he reads, I need to see and physically understand why. On many of my vehicles(Mostly Fords) when Ive sprayed and even been under 10lbs boost, my timing has been advanced more than stock PCM calibration. So what make my SRT different ? Is it just people on the bandwagon sayng so or is there really something different. On my 03 Cobra advancing the timing, leaning it out and a extra 2lbs boost over stock PCM gave me like 60RWHP. SRG Stank, I know you have a PCM for N20. Is the timing number you gave me on the N20 tune or a N/A tune ? 2nd- Im asking where the timing pickup is because I have access to different laths and CNC machines. If possible Im want to move the pickup, fooling the computer where actual timing really is. If it is at the rear of the crank like GMs then this idea is a pipe dream. Again, thanks to all that resonded and Dave you will be receiving a call from me for either a recalibrated PCM or Diablo Predator.
Well IMO relocating the pick-up will lead to more problems then you can very imagine. And considering that with the Diablo CMR tuning ability, it's just no worth the effort. Hell if you really want to know, just playing with a pot connected to the AIT sensor will net you the ability to adjust enough timing to play around. Your question about why these are different animals. I have to take into account your question is regarding reduced advance and a richer fuel curve then other motor combinations. Well again, IMO it is how well designed the motor is. The combustion chamber/piston/port angle are so well designed that they are extremely efficient. I will say with my BnG and the way Dave completes his timing maps. The base advance setting allow me to run higher octane fuel and take full advantage of it. 100 octane will grant me an average of 23-24 degrees of advance verses 18-19 with 91. Again, the KS's doing their job.
Cam, I appreciate your imput and your ET are impressive as well. Lets assume the pickup is in front of the timing cover(Im hoping) With the tooling and resources I have, designing this timing kit will not be hard.It will only be time, materials are all in my garage. I did the same on a all out Super Street outlaw car we built 4 years ago. 85% of what it took to turn this car from a streetcar to a drag car was bought, the other 15% was fabbed out of either aluminium or steel stock. I have my personal reasons why I hesitate to go with a predator so Im looking for a different alterative than that direction. Also if I can advance timing 5 degrees thats where a majority of power is coming from, this also gives me the ability retard if I choose to spray lets say 200 Shot:viking: I also see people post that these motors are blowing, is that fact or myth ? Ive been on various boards and forums and you see posts stating,"My Motor blew" I dont surf these boards much but havent seen any posts like that here. These motors produce power and they might be effiecent but they are still internal combustion motors same as they were in 60s. Air/fuel/spark= go
John, fwiw it's a 75 shot w/out tune, not 175. Definitely need a nitrous tune and two step colder plugs for 175.
Andy, I keep reading this but see no proof as to why. My 11:1 2V Motor had advanced timing on a 150 shot. My Cobra ran 21 degrees with 15lbs boost and a ineffiecent EATON blower. We ran 32lbs boost on a 8.2:1 motor producing over 1600HP with 18degrees timing. Sure they were lower compression motors but cylinder pressures were much higher than this motor would be on a 150 shot. As long as no detonation is present, I will be fine.(I Think) and I do agree that colder plugs are going to be needed. I can supply both enough fuel and high enough octane to help prevent detonation. Im hoping SRGT Stanko can reply if the timing numbers he gave are for NA tune or N20 tune.
