These gears are scheduled to come out later this year for our sleds (cars). I wanted to get a discussion going about the pro's and con's of this particular setup. Not tall enough, need half shafts/DR's, only for drag racing, etc. Thoughts???
Pros: more torque down low=better 60 foot times Cons: your cruising RPMs go up (worse gas mileage), you will likely need half-shafts due to the increased load when launching. Are you getting the idea yet Rick? You WILL needs half-shafts with pretty much anything you have planned.
I hear you brother...I'll probably be doing that and a Quaife in a few months. But, as Cam posted in another thread: "The 3.55's are a waste IMO for a daily driver. You have to remember that it doesn't matter if you have the gears or not, your still trying to push a 4500lb car off the line and no matter what you do, traction is limited forcing/pushing that much mass X amount of distance in X amount of time. But that's a whole other thread. " So, here we are!!
Rick, I'm new to the world of auto trannys coming from the Mustang world and a 5 speed so I'm still learning things but ... I believe a good torque converter will accomplish what a gear swap would on a manual car, at least that's what I've been told. And like Adam said with a gear swap you run higher revs all the time and get worse mileage whereas with a tc you don't, you just get the benefit of launching better ... again at least that's what I've been told.
Adam, I've heard time and again that half shafts are needed if you plan on getting drag radials, and that's it... the amt of power you put down doesn't necessarily matter (within reason), its the sudden grip that snaps the shafts. Right? Wrong? Like you were saying... it'll raise crusing rpms by a factor of 400... not too bad! What ET gains (losses) could be expected from said gears?
A TC is for launch only. The idea is that you're able to launch at a higher rpm which would be further up/closer to your power band. Trade off is that it's like slipping the clutch below that rpm. You definitely don't want the stall to be higher than your shift point... You have to be a little serious about drag racing for a TC. Not for Rick. Gears will give you more scoot off the line as well as in any gear. Trade off is top end mph and mpg (mainly in the top gear -- highway driving). It's effectively a power adder until you get to warp speed (which you don't have any more). I think Cam was mainly thinking launch/drag racing when talking about being able to get the power to the ground. You can already spin the tires launching in first now. With gears you should be able to break them loose from a roll in first and will have to feather it at the 1-2 shift and maybe even at the 2-3 shift. Rick would like this. Getting the right ratio to match your preference will be tricky. 3.55's, 3.23's, etc. Don't know of anywhere to test drive those before installing... Quaife - just a good idea. Will help on the drag strip as well as on the track. Half shafts - will need for launching with any power adders including gears.
Bzzzt, wrong question? Rick's main priority is not the quarter mile. As soon as you put the 1/4 end point on it you have to consider what gear you're going to be in when you cross it and when you shifted into that gear before crossing it. If you don't put the 1/4 mile line down then the gears are just, effectively, a power adder until you hit your top speed. You balance that with how many rpms you want to be turning on the highway in 5th gear.
Im happy with our 3.73 we carry in our jeeps but would prefer the 3.92 ratio. Our 3.73 gears help us offset the curb weight of 690 lbs the jeep carries over the lx cars. The 3.73 help carry my race weight of 5090 to 8.20 et in the 1/8. I think a 3.73-3.92 in the lx cars would be a great asset plus help spin the tires a lot eaiser and may help the 1/2 shafts from breaking.
THAT'S a big one right there and I totally agree with Dave, I HIGHLY recommend trying them out first, at a minimum riding in someone's car with them already installed. In my Mustang I went from stock 2.73 gears to what the speed shop guy recommended 3.73 gears and it was waaaaaaaaaay to much for me, first gear was utterly useless and driving it daily was a pita. Quickly thereafter I swapped to a 3.55 gear set and that was better but I prolly should have gone down to 3.27 ... my point being it depends on what your preference is and it's something you can't tell till you actually have them installed. (For the record I know that auto trannys are dif than manuals and the Mustang T5 had an insanely short 1st gear which added to my problems)
Rick.. If you plan on road racing much these gears might be nice. They will keep your power up at lower speeds like "in the twistes", where as a TC would be a pain.
I'll wait and see how people like the gears when they come out. It would seem that a 3.23 wouldn't be much of a noticeable difference. The 3.55 might be a good choice, but I'd like to see how they fealt on the street in person if that's possible. When I had my Firehawk, it came with 3.42's. I changed to 3.73's and didn't notice a big difference out of 1st gear and subsequently changed to 4.10's. I loved the 4.10's with the 6spd out of 1st gear and with 2 overdrive gears I was still only taching about 2100rpms at 70MPH.
Well all that new gears will produce (other then at launch) is at what MPH your in your power band. So depending on how or where you make power, up top, you'll just be changing that value. Let me show you something. This graph is not based upon the ratio's in our trannys. I put this together when Keisler was talking about releasing their manny tranny. But basically, you can see how and where changing the diff gearing impacts MPH at a given RPM. Maybe I'll but this together for our auto's too. But factoring in slip is a PITA.
So...am I right? In the "twisties" (s curves) when you slow, you will have more power to go through and come out of the corners due to the lower gearing keeping your power band up. You won't even have to shift quite as much.
Well ya you were right. But where, tight turns, big sweeping turns, it's a give and take on where you make power in your RPM band verses your MPH. Oop's I forgot something. And it was already pointed out. The TC does nothing but move where in the RPM you go into full lock up. So here's an example. Lets say the stock TC lock up at 2200 rpm. But at that rpm your motor only makes 250lbs of torque. And you go to a 2800 stall that actually stalls at 3200, now you making 400+lbs of torque. The TC will slip to that RPM value allowing you motor to be in a more effective power band once the TC locks up.
This is good stuff guys. I started this just to get info out there. I guess for me it means I'll drive at 60-65 on the freeway as opposed to 80. The shortening of the gears will probably be a good thing on "a" road course...with the exception of the long sweeping right hander at Willow Springs...which is where I'll be racing mainly. The daily driving is where "I" will have fun with the shorter gears. I LOVE getting the car sideways and getting thrown back in my seat. So fuck it...we'll see what happens! Keep talking fellas, this is good stuff!
Trust me Rick, ya don't need gears for that. http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a346/drewsegal/Vids/?action=view¤t=March125.flv Damn I luv pulling that out..................muhahahaha
GREAT video Cam....I did a shortened version of that today with the wife and kid in the car over in a construction zone!! LOL Maybe some sub-frame connectors might be a better way to spend my money!! I need to just buy a Prius and call it a day!!! lol
Once again great for power launches off the line, but "slipping" like hell thruogh the tighter "twisties" of a road course.
Jason/Scott...did it not allow you to respond when you quoted the video also? I'll delete that response...don't quote Cam.
