So here I am a guy that has drag raced his entire automotive life, and I want to start AutoCrossing. What do I need to know about suspension settings, tires, and driving ability? Keep in mind my life has been RWD NA/FI V8s so I KNOW driving around the track is different in a FWD Turbo car. Help me make a Rookies Guide guys! Brain dump on this thread!
I too came from RWD V8s as well as AWD to FWD and it is very different. because your moving foward and turning at the same time thats a recipie for deaster. which is why people call sometimes call it Fail Wheel Drive. you have to learn to drive and turn seperate you cant do both at the same time. if you do both at the same time you usually end up with understeer. but if you learn to control how much input you use you can eventually learn to do both. what you got to do is just go out and drive. Jump head first into it but remember your not going to be a superstar overnight. Seat time and education is the key. once you combine the two you will become a better driver. a good way to start is starting with a stock car. so you can learn the basics: body roll braking understeer weight transfer all these play a big part in the way a car handles once you understand why the car handles the way it does you can antisapate what it will do next and how to adjust for it or use it to your advantage. example. if you in a salum and have a turn at the end. you car will have the weight moving from side to side. if your driving hard enough you will feel alot of movement and the car will get upset. that can be used to your advantage. if you can keep the car upset while going into the turn you will turn faster and may acheve a small amout of oversteer to aid in the turn. the reason this happens is on the last corner the weight was to the outside and as you make your accuall turn the weight shifts and the harder you turn in the more it will want to continue going the direction you were going which will cause the car to oversteer. this accually can be acheved in any car but is more noticable in FWD because your turning and driving with the front tires. now if you have a modded car your not going to notice roll transfer so much. most of us have modded cars and get into it with modded cars. but with modding cars it hides some of the bad driving habbits you have because your compensating it with modifications. you will need someone who has driving experience to coach you and show you what your doing wrong and how to improve on it so you can get rid of the bad driving habbits. everyone has bad habbits, my self included. now to understand how a car handles and how to become a better driver. understeer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understeer oversteer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversteer Weight transfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight_transfer traction http://www.srtconnection.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7514 left foot braking http://www.srtconnection.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1742 Achiveing oversteer http://www.srtconnection.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2628 Heel toe downshifting http://www.srtconnection.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2641
GREAT INFO Nevin! Now I have a question for you what if I do not have a stock car anymore? I have coilovers and going into turns (all streets thus far) I am on rails. How is that going to negatively effect my learning?
its going to hide some of what the car is doing so you wont fully experience what was said above. you have to learn those bacis in order to know how to tweek your car to perform better. and because your car is corning better your not paying attention to what feed back its giving you. example: not all tracks and courses are clean. theres dirt, gravel, its wet, cold. if you dont understand what your cars doing or acting the way it is that particular day you wont know how to adjust for it because your use to always gripping and thats a reason people try it out once and leave because they dont understand what there cars doing or why its doing its when they have it fully modded and just go back to stright line because thats all they know. another reason some people are afraid to race in the rain. its just a mine set. if you know how your cars going to act then you know how to push it to the limit. example: back in feb we had an autocross in the rain. alot of people left because they didnt want to hit the curbs. their use to always gripping. the few of us that stayed ran. i knew it was wet i knew how the car would act. everything i was predicting before the next corner happened and i was able to adjust for it. and i was able to pull .5 sec behind the fastest AWD. because i knew what the car was doing and why. if you mind isnt flying at 100mph a sec constantainly thinking about traction, weight transfer, braking, accelleration, shifting, corning. then your not thinking right. you always have to be thinking what the cars doing and why. it helps you drive faster and push harder. for you i would say when starting since you have coilovers raise the car back to its stock height and adjust it to its softest damping so you can see how bad it will handle. that will be the only way to understand what its doing and why. another reason i like driving at Sagebrush church, the course isnt properly designed and it makes you think about driving. because the course is so screwed up it forces the car to be off balenced. because its off balance you can then see how and why. Lots of people dont like the designs of the course mainly SCCA guys, because their use to having the fast smooth perpared couse so theres not much thinking involved. but also because its poorly designed it can give you bad habbits. one bad habbit is e-brake turning. their cool and all but it slows you down. but in the right time will put you ahead.
makes perfect sense! So would you suggest I up my ride height and go full soft on my coils to kinda work around the issue?
I am one who setup the car and didn't start from basics. Should I have? Yes and no... No because in my opinion you don't go to do something without being prepared. Regardless you will be upgrading suspension. Only difference is picking the parts you need for your car. For instance sway bars vary as well as coilovers and spring rates. Strut bars all do the same and some prefer some more then others. Yes because I could have learned the car more but I feel safer having suspension mods then having none. Plenty of horror stories for those on stock suspension and stock height. Yes because I could have upgrade slowly and learn what every piece does and how it effected the car after install, instead of slapping everything together and not having a clue where to start to make changes. Yes because you can save money in the long run by sticking with parts that work with the car instead of spending money on parts not necessarily needed. Most important things is brakes and tires which I have still neglected. I am what you call a bench AutoX/RR guy haha. Like the term "bench racer". I've yet to actually try it and do it but I too have been wanting to do it.
yes, do it for a few races so you can see what the car is doing and do some reading so its fresh in your mind. for people just learning or wanting to learn more i'll print off the driving info (whats listed on this site) and have them read it. Before the run: so its fresh in there mind so they can pick up whats happening while their driving. After the run: debrefing-did you see the car do this, did it do that, why do you think it did that. how can you fix that. this is the exact same thing i did. and i was able to pick up on what happened and why quickly and immeadily try and ajust it on the next run. a stock car isnt really a stock car. you can do some mods that arent really considered mods. brake pads but no C/D or slotted rotors (rotors have to apear OEM). steel braded brake lines better brake fluid speed bleeders camber bolts polyurathane bushings swaybar endlinks plugs and wires STS brake ducts removal of rear seat and spare tire
another question. TomR @ RSW has some GPS/Datalogging device. As I am very technical and I like to see facts and figures would it be wise to borrow/buy something like this for first runs, or will not not really yield any usuable results as I am a complete FNG.
for first runs no. you need to first understand what the car is doing and fix your self before you get technical. i accually considerd buying that from him. but i still consider my self a novice. ive been racing for almost 4 years and not ready to go technical yet since im continuesly learning new things about my driving and not really ready to fully use it. Or in other words i dont do enough racing to fully use it.
Not even close i still have lots more to learn. I dont know everything and probally will never know everything. but all i can do is keep practicing. One day i may say im a professional driver but right now i would say no. i still consider myself a novice.
Ha! That explains that one vid you posted. You did some sort of U turn that almost looked like a hand brake turn but somehow you managed to accelerate through it at the same time... looked like magic. My advice: Put your seat all the way forward and sort of hunker over the steering wheel.
One more thing...a three pod gauge on your A-pillar is not very accommodating when you are trying to turn rapidly. I can't tell you how many times I've brushed/smacked/punched the third d@mn gauge.
LOL its not magic its practice and technique. jason i have a sugestion. go to modern performance and pick up a Schroth 3-4 point harness and that'll solve your problem. unless your head is way too big and flopping foward everytime you break.
It's not my head that hit the pod, it my hands. When I'm rapidly trying to relocate them...I can't seem to keep them out of the way.:rofl:
Chris, I did some research and this link is a good demo of some things that will enhance your FWD autocrossing experience. Watch it a couple times so you REALLY understand the concept. I...and I bet Nevin....can attest that it will really help you out with shaving off seconds off your times and give you some badass car control while autocrossing, road coursing, or just taking turns. If you have any questions....see my new signature. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcSAiRxmm0w
yeah thats a great vid!!! Great find Rick!! i was wanting to get vid of heal toe shifting to put up here but i sit to damm close to get a small camera to capture everything, but that shows it beautifully!! Left front braking takes alot of practicing a way to understand it and learn it a little quicker is to practice it at low speeds of around 30mph on gravel or dirt corners. that way when you apply it you can feel what its accually doing. and when confident enough to use on asphalt it works awesome!!!
