Removed GSM CAI after ported manifold intake install - reason why inside

[mjc1241]

I took my GSM spacers off when I installed my ported manifold yesterday because I noticed on WOT runs, my car would stutter a bit in the mid to upper RPM range. I noticed it immediately after the initial install of the spacers earlier this year but I kept them on anyway. I did a WOT run yesterday before I took the car to the shop for the manfold install and yes, the stutter was there. During the manifold install I decided to take them off and did a WOT run immediately after with no other changes to my setup and the stutter is completely GONE. I know the spacers helped with heat dissapation in the manifold but with the thermal coating on the ported intake that I have now, I saw no need to keep them on. I think that I will wind up selling them now.
Feedback??

 

[Quick]

Why do you think it caused the stutter? leak? or port fit.

 

[mjc1241]

I want to say port fit because I never had a leak of any sort. Spacer was sandwiched with two gaskets just like it was supposed to be and all looked well when I took the manifold off. I could be wrong but it may have been the way that the air travel direction was changed by the difference in the spacers ports and the air intake ports on the heads. There could possibly have been some turbulence that casued a "flutter" as the air travelled form the manifold to the heads thus causing asmall discernable "stutter" at WOT. The stutter is completely gone now and I re-used the very same intake gaskets that I had on with the spacers and that is why I can safely say that there were no leaks before.

 

[LegMaker]

i have not heard any type of similar feedback from other gsm spacer users. i would be interested to see if i am wrong.....

 

[1bad4dr]

The spacers have no ill effect on the cars performance. What you were experiencing was a Vacuum leak. Where was this leak, I have no idea, but that is what you experienced.

As for coating the outside of your intake, Good Luck with that. You are now trapping heat inside the intake.

You may be keeping external heat out of the intake, but the internal heat has no where to go now. IMO

 

[LegMaker]

ron, i could be wrong, but as i understand things, the black on the outside does not work as a blanket, more as media to disperse the heat from the intake. i always looked at it as a sponge sucking up the heat and then dispersing it out wards..... again, i could be wrong, but that is how i understood it. kinda like the thermocoating PPP uses on there coated manifold..... again, just my understanding..... i hope i am right though, i had planned on powder coating the manifold after x-mas!! hahahaha

 

[1bad4dr]

ron, i could be wrong, but as i understand things, the black on the outside does not work as a blanket, more as media to disperse the heat from the intake. i always looked at it as a sponge sucking up the heat and then dispersing it out wards..... again, i could be wrong, but that is how i understood it. kinda like the thermocoating PPP uses on there coated manifold..... again, just my understanding..... i hope i am right though, i had planned on powder coating the manifold after x-mas!! hahahaha

misconception...

It disapates the outer heat very well, but it certainly does blanket the heat generated from the engine internally.

Acts like insulation so to speak.

 

[LegMaker]

soooooo, if one was to run the spacer plates and also coat the manifold black, it would not be so bad then right????? would be keeping the heat transfer down into the manifold with the spacers, and dispersing the external heat factors with the color........ still do not understand why PPP would be doing a coated manifold???? i swear i had been explained (not in car application though) that heat will suck up the heat source and disperse.....

looking to powder coat the manifold brilliant black when i finally get a hold of some BT spacers......

 

[1bad4dr]

soooooo, if one was to run the spacer plates and also coat the manifold black, it would not be so bad then right?????

looking to powder coat the manifold brilliant black when i finally get a hold of some BT spacers......

Hard to say Chris... I only state my Opinions, I do not have facts to give. Sorry.

As for Powdercoating the intake, it will look AWSOME, but will take away from performance. However, if you are not worried about performance then who cares?

Having my manifold polished was bad for performance as well. It absorbs external heat like a mofo. lol But i have huge poweradders to compinsate for that. hehe

 

[LegMaker]

yeah, sometimes we choose form over function don't we ron!! hahahahaha yeah, i am pretty excited about getting some bt spacers and doing the manifold all nice an smooth and then coated like my wheels!!!!

 

[mjc1241]

I had the car checked for leaks and did not have any at all but maybe something was missed Ron. When I took the spacers off, I used the exact same gaskets that I had on the car with the spacers and the manifold was torqued down exactly the same. I'll hold them off for awhile and maybe go with the PPP thermal gaskets to see if I experience the same problem.

 

[1bad4dr]

I had the car checked for leaks and did not have any at all but maybe something was missed Ron. When I took the spacers off, I used the exact same gaskets that I had on the car with the spacers and the manifold was torqued down exactly the same. I'll hold them off for awhile and maybe go with the PPP thermal gaskets to see if I experience the same problem.

hmmmm Strange... I had a similar issue and found that I had one hellova leak coming from one of the front bolts. It too was torqued. We did some tests as well and couldn't find anything.

Then one day I actually heard it. lol I was checking a wiring issue from my auxillary injectors so I was able to hear it when I was close enough.

The main thing is that your sled is running well now.

 

[mjc1241]

Thanks Ron. I may fall back on another vendor's set just to see if I have the same issue.

 

[GotStroke?]

I used to have the GSM spacers (which I sold to allflashnocash on the red site who now has a very audible vacuum leak with them despite using new gaskets all around and torquing to spec) and now have a ceramic coated manifold with PPP thermal intake gaskets.
The difference is night and day gentlemen. With only the phenolics I still couldn't touch the manifold for more than a second after hard driving or extended idling. Now, no matter what I do to the Jeep, the intake manifold is never more than luke warm.
I will also state that IMO, the obstruction in transition from intake runner to intake port (aka dogleg) created by the phenolics have to hurt--if anything negating their potential benefit. That's the last spot you want to divert flow in an engine (right before the greatest point of restriction which are valves/seats).

Here are some shots of my ported/coated intake vs. a stocker, and the PPP thermal gaskets:

A few shots of my new BWoody hand ported/thermal and powder coated intake manifold along with thermal intake gaskets from PPP.
The intake was ported/flowed to within 1 cfm runner to runner the correct way, that is, not taking it out to the gasket. Gaskets are for sealing, not for use as a porting guide. ;-)

 

[GotStroke?]

More pics and info:

Pics:

The runners are much straighter after porting which really can't be seen in these pics, but what is obvious is the amount of material removed from the fuel injector bosses and throat of the plenum (just behind the TB). They protrude quite a bit.

Stock:

Ported:

Stock:

Ported:

Stock:

Ported:

Stock:

Ported:

 

[LegMaker]

stroke - very nice pics......

 

[HoP Racing]

I had the car checked for leaks and did not have any at all but maybe something was missed Ron. When I took the spacers off, I used the exact same gaskets that I had on the car with the spacers and the manifold was torqued down exactly the same. I'll hold them off for awhile and maybe go with the PPP thermal gaskets to see if I experience the same problem.

It's possible that one of the spacers maybe cracked. To find vacuum leaks that are stubborn to find, use a smoke machine.

 

[LegMaker]

and put it in front of the cai to suck in the smoke????

 

[PPPAndy]

the coatings on our manifold are different from top to bottom, the bottom coating is a block, the top coating is a dispersant and does not act like insulation but as a dispersant, if it was a block up top, it would be dissapating the heat on the outside, but a dispersant dissapates heat in the aluminum which comes from the inside. I suggest anyone who does not understand this process, call and ask for details and we would be glad to help as much as possible.

 

[mjc1241]

I'll look again for cracks but they look solid. Thanks for all of the feedback on this. I have an idea what I am going to do now. Along with the new PPP 90MM TB and harmonic balancer/underdrive pulley if they show good ojn a dyno...