I installed the TranZformer shift kit yesterday. AWESOME product. When driving at speeds from 20 and above when I go WOT there is a noticeable "THUNK" during the downshift. It also does it in autostick when I downshift while applying any throttle pressure. It doesn't do it if I'm coasting and downshift. This thing responds so quick it is downright scary/great. When I turn off the TranZformer the "THUNK" goes away. Is anyone else experiencing this or have an idea what it might be? Admins, if I'm not allowed to discuss non-vendors please delete the thread. Rick
It splices into the TCM and CAN-B Bus. The thing is pretty damn cool. The paddle shifts are near instantaneous. But, the coolest thing about it IMO is when you are in drive and go WOT it downshifts so damn fast it is almost scary. No more pause.....build up rpms...and move out. You are moving out as soon as you mash the throttle.
hmmm... if it's talking directly to the TCM then it's probably bypassing torque management. I'm trying to think how it would do that.
Do tell.....Cam recommended it. However, he did say they were working on something....maybe that was the thing!! Dookie was installing his yesterday as well. I haven't heard his thoughts yet.
I was sort of thinking about that... I'm taking a wild guess it's reading some inputs from the OBDII/Chrysler stuff to decide when to shift and then sends the command to the TCM as if it was the PCM. And if it's doing it before the PCM does then you would be bypassing the torque management. If it's doing that then it's going to put a lot of strain on driveline components outside of the transmission too?
I don't know Rick... You probably should have put it on Momo's car for a while first . Where's the details on how it works?
I'm reading through the 36 pages at LX now and trying to find where it is explained. I've seen the post....give me a few!!
Here's a couple posts I ran across: Forgot to add earlier... The really good part is about ramping pressures in a controllable way...but there is still one obstacle...the dreaded Torque Management. HAL will still pull timing during shift events unless you get a custom tune to put that timing back in. The increased line and shift pressures will go a loong way to mask a sloppy shift...but you still get shorted a TON of torque. (the ECU pulls 14+ degrees of timing during shifts !!! ) Hadn't seen it yet...but can you add in Torque Converter Clutch control...??? Sure would be nice to be able to control the PWM going to the clutch solenoid while your controlling the other solenoids... maybe a table based on rpm vs. pedal % or even simply WOT...so that the converter will lock in the upper rpm and then unlock on the upshift (when rpm drops) and then lock back in again after the shift completes and you get back to the upper revs again...??? This would get you max TQ under the curve with no bog in higher HP applications that can use a higher than stock stall speed. -Freak Freak, Thanks for being cool about this - I'm glad you were able to make some bucks and bring a "fun" mod to the community while I was too busy to work on finalizing my version. I agree about the TM pulling timing - I was toying with the idea of putting a box between the TCM and CAN-C bus, and modifying some info on the bus so the PCM wouldn't know there was a shift going on - effectively disabling TM. In the same manner, I could intercept RPM info from the PCM to TCM to fool the TCM into thinking you're at a lower RPM than you really are, thereby raising shift points... BUT - I have two problems with that. First, I'd be messing with the CAN-C bus, which I think is WAY too risky to do based on reverse-engineered info only. If I had access to DCX's CAN-C message documents, and knew exactly what PID had what info and what can be modified without risk, I'd do it. But working on assumptions would risk too much with drive-by-wire and ABS on that bus, no way! The other issue is that I'm not sure how the TCM would react. I wouldn't want the car to go into limp mode. Which brings up the next issue: TCC apply. Sure I can create a third PWM output to work with the TCC. I'll probably even try to play with that. But reading through the service manual a bunch, it seems as though the TCM constantly monitors input and output shaft speeds, and calculates what they should be based on which gear you're in and whether it's commanding the TCC on or not. If I apply the TCC when the TCM isn't, it'll probably freak (no pun intended) and send you to limp mode. My plan is this: Get the beta units out there, let the beta testers try it, and I'll modify the software to add in whatever features I can. Then there will be a production build available for sale to everyone. Once that's stable (and I have time to put my engineering hat back on) I'll start messing with TCC apply and perhaps some ways of fooling the TCM... plus I have the Jeep and Crossfire guys knocking at my door, so some work there, too. But let's keep this discussion open - I'm always open to new ideas and I always take them into consideration. Oh yeah, I've been a supporting vendor for almost 4 years now
I found their website. Everything looks straight forward ...except changing shift firmness and deleting the lag. When you shift with the stock shifter (or provide those inputs) I think you're talking to the PCM. Then the PCM does it's thing, including torque management, and sends the shift command to the TCM when it's ready. So if you sent the shift command directly to the TCM you would be bypassing torque management and you could do away with some of the delay. That still wouldn't really be changing the shift firmness. It would feel like a harder shift because you would be shifting the trans under power (no torque management) but it wouldn't really be a firmer shift in that line pressure would still be the same? Not sure that makes a difference but it is being done differently. RPMs in stick mode is just sort of "moving the stick" for you using RPM as a trigger. Can't see anything wrong with doing that. The "firmer" shifts and no lag worries me.
[I was typing while you posted that...] HOLY SHIT BUD! From those 2 posts I wouldn't get near that thing... Are those recent posts? or they've been testing/beta for a year or so now?
That was prior to the beta testing units being sent out back in September. I'll keep reading. Here's a link to thread: http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=236016
First off, I wasn't aware you could control line pressure from outside the TCM. I'd say it's a sure bet they haven't managed to develop a "tune" for the TCM. Still looks like my guess that they're just sending the shift commands to the TCM that the PCM would is right. Haha, to quote Ron, I think there's some chance "that thing is going to make your tranny go bye bye". On the other hand, it might hold up until you have your Raptor
What do you think torched all those tranny's last year? Not the thing you got, but tuners trying to trick the TCM and TM... BS on the too much HP thing. I have been running well over 500rwhp in my car since 2006 and have never, never had an issue with my tranny except once... The tuner decided to up my shift points and rev limiter. I had that "Clunking" noise three times (and all three times I went into a tranny limp mode). I had the tuner REMOVE the shift points and rev limit. Haven't looked back since... This is only my opinion, Rick. I don't know shit about these things, but I do know that odd noises aren't good.
Well... ok, I read his description of how it works. He is inserting between the TCM and the transmission. Fine. Maybe not so bad there. But... I'm not so sure this guy is a transmission guy... and t-taps? really? I wonder what thats going to do when the wrong connector gets loose. I think if I was going to use that I'd set all the firmness and delay stuff to stock and just use the paddle/button shift function. maybe the shift at certain RPMs. Better yet, give it to Momo. He'd be really excited about having some sort of mod again and probably wouldn't drive it hard enough to do any damage
Hey Rick, I think m comment was this looks pretty promising. I'm pretty Fn sure I said I'd get back to you after I installed mine. Well I hate to tell you.....................but it's still in the box on the self.....LMAO!! I haven't read that thread in a while. But I thought the TM issue was adjustable with the software. Have you called Joe yet??.
Yep, I'm with you Ron. It was a couple hundred bucks and I can turn it back to stock with two clicks of the ESP button....which I've done. I let Momo drive it today...he thought it was awesome...minus the clunk (LMAO) Hell, I know you're a busy dude lately Cam. If Kyle was doing it I thought it was good enough for me! LOL Here is another post from someone and Joe's reply: Ok so did some more ground and pounding to it... noticed some stuff... for whatever reason when i am in the throttle it will not shift when i want it to... for example if i am in it and at about 4500 rpm and i shift but still accelerating the car will not shift until the rpms aren't climbing anymore... i dont like that... i want the car to shift as soon as i shift it... i also noticed if i am on the accelerator at all when i downshift it kicks really hard like its supposed to when i am going to from 1-2 or 2-3 etc... and it does that instantly but it doesnt do it the other way... does anyone know why??? Well I do know why the downshift-during-accelerating kicks hard: The tranZformer sees that you're on the gas, so it's boosting pressures for an upcoming upshift or kickdown. If you're off the gas then it'll set pressures to your "downshift" settings (usually a small value) I can change the threshold of throttle pressure that it takes to trigger an "accelerating" state - right now it's something like 2%. I don't know why it's holding in gear when commanded to upshift by you - I've never had that and it doens't make much sense. It should bang so fast when you tap the shifter that you can't notice any delay. Try knocking the upshift boost way down to like 10% to see if it's the increased pressure or perhaps a wiring issue with the shifter wire taps.
well, I've read more here then with Joes thread. I can tell you this. These TM parameters for both upshift and down shift are controllable thru CMR. I've had some of these issues with BB transmissions and valve bodies and have had Bob at SVS adjust them accordingly. I can also tell you that the shift firmness is RPM corolated and that's where the settings are adjusted in CMR. I've played with it myself. Now Joe should be able to do the same thing is he is aware of that. Maybe I'll forward him the information, wonder if that will help him dial this in.
Forward it to him by all means Cam. If I can't use the thing for a while...or ever...it'll still be $200 dollars well spent because I got to build a wiring harness and splice into the TCM and CAN-B bus. "I'm in the man club"....sorta!
