What sort of boost levels and WGA solenoid duty cycle are you seeing? Just to give you some back ground I noticed that my WGA DC is only going up to 65-75% when I am spiking around 16-17 (map reading). It used to go higher but I can't remember if it is the bleeder mod causing this or has something changed with the solenoid. I am still trying to track down why I'm still getting 5-6* of kr. So far I have replaced the WGA line, used the blue line as a source for the TIP, and reset the ECU. It used to be about 2* higher and I was getting kr under PTB conditions (~5psi).
Will let you know sometime today. I'm around 16-18 spike depending on the weather. I'm running PCM Controlled boost on a FM WGA, no bleeder mod needed, just using the stock solenoid bleed.
Thanks man. I have heard nothing but great things about the FM wga, where did you get it from I may have to just say eff it and ditch the AGP.
I had the AGP and I got tired of it. I've ran a few different wga's on my car from stock, PTP/Kinectic, S2, AGP, and now FM. FM by far is the best IMO. I got mine used for around $100-$110 shipped if I recall. You can also buy it new from Forward Motion. Here's the link: http://www.forwardmotioninc.com/html/catalog/page18.html
I to have heard nothing but good things about the FM wga. Is PTB as great as it is with the agp? How do u set ur car up to run off ECU boost controll? Id like to set mine up that way and ditch the MBC. What allows the ecu to controll the boost? dose the mbc take that away?
FM wga the PTB is non-existent on PCM controlled, very little off pcm controlled and by far not even close to the horrid PTB the AGP wga has. AGP has the worse PTB then all wga's I've experienced. If your running an aftermarket wga and want to run it off PCM controlled boost then you would run a hose from the wga to the back of the turbo or run a hose from the wga to the "L" shaped green line running to the back of the turbo. Depending on a person's setup all other vac lines are ran differently and some may be removed. You can only do this if your running a aftermarket wga, you CANNOT run off pcm controlled boost with stock/s2 wga. MBC's are useless if your running a aftermarket wga. If your running a aftermarket wga off PCM controlled boost then the PCM (ECU) has no control. Whatever you adjust the wga to is what it will be at every time.
Not trying to steal your thunder.... If you run vac line from the Aftermarket wga to the green inlet on the back of the turbo, you are completly removing PCM functionality. To keep the PCM controlling boost, you must use the factory lines that run to the selonoid. Bad thing about that is your going to dump TONS of timing, on top of the fact, its going to throw CELS is your not running a staged PCM. MBC is a GOOD thing for a car running a Aftermarket WGA. Its also good for your fingers. 1: its easier then wrenching on a hot turbo's WGA rod when your trying to fine tune on the road.. ie, you wont burn your fingers and knuckles 2: You get a cleaner more accurate spike. I'm not sure I understand the FM WGA PTB vs AGP WGA PTB. yea, the FM WGA is going to have less because its a stiffer spring, but noticable? Both are going to have horrid PTB. I have an AGP WGA, and have the same issue a friend of mine that has a FM.
Your first paragraph is pretty much what I said. Except your wrong on the part I made in bold. The PCM controlling boost on a FM wga you will NOT throw any overboost codes. The PCM having control adjusts boost accordingly to what parameters it reads (IAT, Ambient Air, etc.). Hence why it doesn't matter what you adjust it to as the PCM is controlling so yes intially when you install a wga whether stock or FM on PCM controlled boost you will spike past 20psi until the PCM learns and adjusts the boost (lowers) it to safe levels. I have a AEM Uego Wideband and Aeroforce Scangauge, timing is great and 0 kr. Now your statement in BOLD holds true for those running OFF PCM controlled boost. With a MBC you will not get a more accurate spike. You actually get uncontrollable spikes. You may set it for around a 17 spike and next thing you know you spike 20psi another day. MBC's are in accurate. I've even ran an EBC on my car on stock turbo and it had horrid spikes and was uncontrollable. The only way to have a controlled spike is by adjusting the wga. Set it and forget it. I wouldn't judge the FM wga until you've tried one. AGP is by far the worst with PTB on the market. This has been said by many and many current owners. I've ran the AGP so I know what it does and how it works. Worst wga I've ever owned. I've ran my FM wga off pcm controlled boost and currently running it on pcm controlled boost. PTB is no where near as the AGP wga. There is PTB running any wga off pcm controlled boost, AGP is by far the worse of all on the market. My wife's SRT-4 is DCR Stage 3 with full bolt-ons and she's running the S3 AGP wga on PCM controlled boost and its great. Too bad AGP couldn't do that with the AGP wga for the stock turbo.
Gotta run, and cant really comment on everything, but what is the point of using a aftermarket WGA if your going to let the PCM control the boost? Its going to cut it down to the PCM's acceptable levels anyhow? Moot point? If you adjust a AGP/FM/PTP/ LSD/ PSP wga to lets say 19lbs, and use the factory vaclines running to the selonoids. Its going to dump the excess boost but the PCM will still retard the timing. Isnt this why when you overboost you get the p2074 cel, car feels like it hit a brick wall, and you dump a ton of timing?
I think your missing the point... there's only (3) WGA's out there you can run on pcm controlled boost safely. That would be stock, Stage 2, and FM wga. There's also benefits when you run a tuning device as SCT or Diablosport. Boost can be raised and timing/fuel can be changed. So with that said PTB is less of an issue :grin:. I'm spiking 18psi on PCM controlled boost. The colder it is the less boost is ran (lowest I've seen thus far is 16psi when it was a bit cold out), the hotter it is the more boost you'll run. What makes it so nice about running PCM controlled boost is AFR's will stay in a safe range. Food for thought, 19psi is not safe on Stage 1's fuel system. You will pull timing and possibly have knock. For every knock count it is said you lose 7hp. Here's another common thing most owners fail to see because they are in the mass of "I want to run more boost crowd" and think more boost is better and more power. The stock turbo's efficiency is around 19-20psi. Anything past that your brining in hot air, raising egt's and losing power. There's been owners that have ran 16psi and put down better numbers then someone running 18/19/20+ on stock turbo. Why? Because its not the point of how much boost you run its the point how much air you can push effeciently through the turbo. You started rambling off wga's I've never heard of... there's stock, PTP/Kinetic/SBR, AGP, FM, Stage 2, Forge, and then all the ebay pos ones. There's more then (1) overboost code, the worst one puts you in limp mode. The FM is an exception as you can run it OFF and ON PCM controlled boost. FM recommends it ON PCM controlled and its based on a Cummins design. If you try running any other aftermarket wga on PCM controlled boost you will have uncontrollable spikes of 20+ psi causing all sorts of problems.
Maybe I was a bit confused on the OP's question. And I follow completly what you say regarding the spike and bleed. My point being if you use the FM WGA and set the spike high on a factory PCM, it will throw a code. I don't understand the differnt in either WGA since all It is, is a diaphram and a spring with an adjustable rod. Some WGA's have differnt springs which will allow higher spikes, but unless you gave a staged PCM, you will undoubetly throw cel's. Unless you do the differnt overboost mods to "hide" them. I know there us only a few aftermatket WGA's out there. The LSD / PCP was a joke referring to types of drugs. I wasn't rambling 19lbs is A LOT of pressure for a stock turbo. I know better then that and the effency of or turbos after 18lbs. I ran a 13.0 @ 19 lbs fir the he'll of it, dropped the spike to 18 and ran a 12.8. Boost isn't always better, and could be detrimental to performance gains. Your wives car is running fine because it won't throw codes, and PCM will allow that type if spike, added she has bigger injecters.. Yadda yadda, you know what I mean I know there is more the one over boost code. P2074 is the most common. What I am basicly trying to say us I know it is safe to run an aftermarket WGA on factory lines to an extent
ok im wondering what to do when i get the diablo? it controls boost but dosn't it do it by the pcm or ecu? how would u have to have your lines set up to run the diablo and use its boost controller function?
so to get the diablo preditor i would need to get the FW wga and run pcm controlled the boost in order to reap the benefit of all the diablo has to offer? is this a correct assumption or can i keep the agp? ptb isn't that big of an issue ive learned how to re drive my car.
Personal choice, personal preference. I rather keep my car on PCM control everything and flash a tune with Diablosport. You can use it with any setup. Its just the way I'm running my setup to go along with it. I'm not saying you need to go with an FM wga or any of that to go with Diablosport. Everyone's setup is different and Diablosport can be used with any setup. My plans have changed and my plans are to run everything on PCM controlled boost so I got the FM wga and I got the Boomba Bov to replace the stock bov (surge valve). This thread has gone way off course, so from this point forward lets focus on what Nate was asking originally. Nate, I didn't get to check my wga DC today. I will try tomorrow. As for your knock, what is timing like?
I'm running about 23* on the spike falling to about 20* at redline. Depending on the outside temp I will get anywhere from 4 to 6* of kr. One thing I am trying to determine is if the solenoid is bad or going bad. I found on the wga line a huge leak right where it connects to the WGA. I am wondering if the solenoid could be going out since with that leak it would have been working overtime to try and control the boost. I am pretty tempted at this point to sell the AGP and buy a FM since it seems to be inline with what I am trying to do with the car.
Hmmmm, I noticed last night my timing by redline was around in the 30's at WOT doing 100-120mph across a bridge with 0 knock. When you get a low timing number it means the PCM is pulling timing. My timing is around 19 at initial WOT and goes up from there. As for the solenoid, there's a good way to test this. Well easy way if you have a stock wga laying around install it, install the stock bleed on the solenoid, reset the battery, let the pcm learn and adjust the boost back to safe levels. Check your timing and knock then. When I did a boost leak test on my wife's car I found a nasty leak on the plastic black line going to the wga (hole in the plastic line)... replaced it with another one I had laying around and no problems since. Maybe this is a cause of the bleeder mod on the AGP wga running it on pcm control. How are you AFR's? EGT's?
I pulled the WGA line and replaced it with some silicone vac line I had around. So I am pretty sure that is fine. I still haven't replaced my wideband so I don't really trust it but it is reading 11.5 on the spike fading down to 10. and my EGT's are running between 1500 and 1600. Maybe I will go back to the stock WGA and see what happens.
