Posting for Dr.Steve he's not able to get to computer right now So I went to install my custom CMR tune this morning and it wouldn't write to the vehicle the first two times. The third time the install went through and during the process, the predator said it didn't recognize the vehicle type but I chose to continue, assuming it was a normal part of the install. The custom tune finishes writing, predator displays the file.drg name and says it is now in the vehicle. Then, I turn the key and the truck won't start. So I hop on the phone with Tom from MHP who tries to walk me through forcing the stock tune in and I can't do it because I don't have a password to enter and Diablo isn't open until Mon morning Now, each time I plug in the predator to try to install the stock tune or at least re-load a diablo tune, it tells me that the predator doesn't recognize the vehicle and it won't allow me to continue. So now, I have a Jeep that won't start and I have NO IDEA what to do next. I have calls in to Tom and Andy, but in the mean time, I'm freaked out that my Jeep is dead. . . . anyone have any advice????????? __________________
Was this the Jeep on an old rev, who claimed the CMR tuner told him specifically 'NOT' to update the tuner, thus leaving him with a dead truck? FWIW, anyone who gets a custom tune, should always be on the latest rev before you load it, especially if you are on one of those OLD revisions. As far as I know, he is up and running now.
Yup, haven't gotten my new one figured out yet either!!! I'm sure a computer dummy, I have NO idea what I doing! One of my friends that has one, (as soon as he gets some free time), is going to come up and help me. For some reason I cannot download the new crom file into the predator! Some folks have tried to help me over the phone, but I have NO idea what they are talking about ~ LOL ~ (The ONE thing I don't want to do is MESS it up!)
thanks for posting for me Wade, appreciate you putting out feelers. As far as the above post, I am NOT up and running. The guys at DS sent me a file to try last night when I got home, and it did nothing different than anything we had tried prior. The consensus seems to be that the PCM is fried / bricked and now I need a new one. The tuner has stepped up and offered to cover my expenses and send the dealer a new PCM, but has also stated that he has performed many tunes on old CROM files and not had issues. So here I am, stuck in the middle with a dead Jeep (for now). Hat's off to the tuner for standing by his work and offering to mitigate my losses. . . discuss
Discuss? Yes, I think this could be informative. There seems to be a good bit of misunderstanding or just "I don't know" related to CMR tunes and their relationship to CROM versions. Maybe what happened here will be educational. Mike: if you want me to move the thread off your forum I'll do so. If it gets out of hand or goes south I'll just whack it. You should feel free to do the same First some background from my undrstanding: CROM - firmware version on the Predator/Trinity (I'll just use Predator in the discussion but the handheld could be either). Includes the menus and functions to manipulate tune files (we'll leave out the diag stuff) and supports some set of calids for the car it's for. Tune files - a set of DS tune files come bundled with the Predator. Basically generic tune files for the supported car. Intended for stock or very lightly modded cars. Then one can get custom tune files from a tuner using the CMR software to produce them. The performance tune files that come with the handheld are simply CMR files from DS. Now for this particular case it might be good to have some details. Year and calid of the jeep. Original CROM version of the predator. CROM version that the initial CMR tune file was written for. History: was the CMR tune ever loaded to the car previously? versions? then what happened as far as updating, restored original backup, dealer visit, dealer upgrade of pcm, etc, etc, Then the discussion part: I have always been under the impression that tune files are basically independent of the CROM. The CROM may or may not be able to modify specific parameters in a tune file based on CROM version, but delivery of a tune to the PCM is transparent. For example, on older CROM versions you could enable/disable the rear 02's. Newer ones you can't. But delivery of a tune file to the PCM is the same whether the tune has had the rear 02's disabled or not. On the other hand, way back when, the general advice was "if you have a CMR tune then stick with the CROM the tune was written for". I always figured the reasoning behind that was that there wasn't any reason to update CROMs if you were using a custom tune file. --when DS makes changes/improvements in the supplied tune files they are delivered bundled with a subsequent CROM. It's not that the CROM and tune file changes are interdependent, it's just thats the only delivery mechanism DS has for updated tune files. Back then DS was rushing out CROMs to support the LXs and bugs/enhancements were discovered in the field and fixed/improved in subsequent CROM versions. Improved tunes were also bundled with the new CROMs when the tune files changed. Naturally people would not make the distinction between the CROM and the bundled tune files. "does this CROM give me firmer shifts than that one?". "I'm using a CMR tune, will I see improved throttle response with the latest CROM?". Stuff like that. The burning question is: What IS the dependency between a CMR tune file and the CROM? Surely there is or could be some dependency if one uses the "modify parameters" function of the predator. I believe that is the dependency with the calid? With different calids parameters could be in a different locations in the tune file image? Is that why the advice was to use the CROM the CMR file was originally developed for? Is there more? like supported file/image size for the version of the PCM loader or things like that? So... what happened here? Sounds like you had a predator with a prior CROM version? Sounds like you had a CMR file that was created for or at the time of a prior CROM version? What was the situation with the PCM? calid? Did you do "modify parameters" on the tune file? versions?
I see the issue is being dealt with on DS's site. Looks like you had a Predator with 8r14 on it? Then you got a CMR tune from MHP that was produced with a current CMR version. And your PCM is not bricked. It's just that the car won't start with the flash that's currently in it. Will be interesting to find out what the incompatibility was or what happened. (I think I have 9r11 in my Predator and using a CMR tune made for/with 9r07. Of course the LXs didn't really have any PCM calid changes back then.)
Hmmm, this is where a lot of confusion comes from. (same thread over on the cherokeesrt8 site). MikeL says: and Jim383 responds: So Mike is talking about installing a CMR tune and, I'm guessing, you (Jim) must be talking about using the DS perf tunes that came bundled with the CROMs, and not a CMR tune? I don't believe the CROM version is going to have ANYTHING to do with changing performance in the same CMR tune file. 8r20 & CMR tune created with corresponding CMR version. 9r12 and SAME custom tune file ==> I don't believe you could see any difference. on the other hand, 8r20 & CAI 93 Oct performance tune that came bundled with 8r20. 9r12 and CAI 93 Oct performance tune that came bundled with 9r12 ==> then you might see a difference since the CAI 93 Oct tune that came with 8r20 is NOT the same tune that came with 9r12. right?
lol...Im with you Quick. Here is the issue... A while back we added some changes to CMR to deal with Forced induction tuning, these were referred to as level 2 changes. (this was a long time ago). When these changes were implemented in the tune files, a change had to be made to the predator code to let them know how to handle these new files, this was done via a new revision (somehwere around 8r18). At the time, we ran into this issue several times, customer had say 8r10, got a new custom tune with the level 2 changes, and was left with a clicking TB and a car that would not start...fun. Did not take us long to find the fix, and we got everyone up and running, and after an update, they loaded their tunes and went on their merry way. So, you are generally correct to say tunes are independent of croms, except in this more general case where the crom is super old....
lol at Dave (Quick)... The good news here is that we are reading Dave's conversation to himself and learning at the same time. :friends:
I also see alot of people forgetting to load their original backup back into the vehicle before updating the handheld with the latest CROM.
the original backup tune was in the vehicle. the CROM on the pred was 8r14 (I never updated it after I bought it in 9/07). I did NO modifications to any parameters and have never loaded any other CMR tunes, this was my first time doing anything like this. I followed the download / upload directions exactly as the tuner instructed (he was on the phone with me), the only thing I didn't do that DS recommends is updating to the newest CROM prior to uploading the CMR tune. Newest update is that I got home tonight, tried the fix Mike at DS gave me today, and it didn't work. Now I have to decide by tomorrow afternoon to tow the car to the dealer after work or not. I really don't think I have any other choice at this time, I am just too nervous that I am going to do more damage with all the "fixes" that have been tried and may be recommended going forward.
Steve, this really sucks and I can certainly understand your fears and concerns moving forward. I really don't think there is much to worry about as far as more damage??? Have the dealer reflash the PCM and reload the CMR tune (ensuring that the handheld is updated with the most recent update). Should be golden from there? At the most, the PCM has become corrupt and needing to be replaced. Sorry for all your troubles.
Steve sorry to hear buddy and hope it works out.. Now for a hijack, before I update to the new CROM version, I should load my OEM tune back into my SRT8 update the CROM to the current version then reload the CMR tune back into the predator and then reflash the PCM? Last time I went to a newer CROM version it would not let me load a tune into the predator and had to go back yo the previous version to load a tune into the predator and reload it into my car, has this little glitch been fixed???????
Any reason you need to update to a newer CROM version? What version are you on? That's a new one. What version was that?
Steve if you do end up getting a new PCM do not leat the dealer keep the original one, I would send it to Diablo and let them take a crack at it and if they can get it cleared then you can resale it or have a backup hopefully it still has your VIN# assigned to it.
great idea Wade, I'll definitely ask them for the part back. Tuner is fedexing the new PCM in the morning, truck should be fixed Thursday if god is smiling down on me, then I'll happily ship the old PCM to DS for them to diagnose it!
thanks much, appreciate the support, hopfully this will all be over very soon and I can go back to loving my commute and every errand I run :grin:
