Is there anyway we can just ship all of Berkeley to Venezuela??

Probably! Really hard to argue with that, with that, with that...is that a sentence?

 

Whats wrong with toy guns? I had cap guns when I was a little kid. When I got a little older I got BB guns and pellet guns. When I got older I got a shotgun. When I got older I got a bunch of other firearms, and I haven't shot anyone yet. Except for the BB gun fights we used to have. I'm lucky to still have my eyes. So whats the problems with toy guns?

 

One can only deal with a mindset that substitutes reality for fantasy for so long before further action (including character assassination) becomes needed. For example: debating. Too much of it goes on, and so little is accomplished. If we were to follow the liberal pathway to enlightenment, we'd become another France. And God only knows how "they're" doing... Muslim riots that result in millions of dollars in damages to productive people's property, or socialized medicine that is a dismal failure (all of Europe and even Canada can attest to this) yet, the Liberals here keep pushing this idea on America. Hey, it doesn't work people! Drop and let's move on.

Many normal Americans have not the time nor temperment to debate issues or policies that are counter to the mainstream American mindset that has been in existence since the signing of the Declaration of Independence... the same issues and debates that erode our country's foundation. The liberal issues are anti-American and deserve no recourse in American politics. They push agenda's on the populace through the biased media even when the citizens oppose such policies (the McCain/Kennedy Bill, for example, was shot down time and again, only to be brought back to the forefront before meeting is belated demise when 75% of Americans said no to illegal immigration).

I agree with most of what you said above. I consider myself an independent, because the Reps and Dems are all the same IMO. Some more extreme than others.

What I term character assassination and what you may consider it may be two different venues. I agree politicians shouldn't do it, because it lowers their already pitiful intellect and communication skills to the point that casting a vote for them is a choice between the lesser of two evils. They use it as a shroud to blur their poor, inadequate and flawed solutions and/or their own character.

Non-politicians, that's another story. Its sad enough when a representative for this country spews BS about global warming, etc. when its a fallacy. But when an ignoramous activist spouts the same crap, they're on the same level as all of us and deserve to get slammed because we can communicate directly to them (as opposed to calling the White House to have a discussion).

The fact of the matter is that liberal issues are manufactured by activist groups seeking whatever, and they'll lie, cheat and steal to get it... and use our biased mass media to do such... making something out of nothing. What it comes down to is the truth. Opinions matter not when they are based on lies, falacies and simple 'feelings' without a grounding in reality. Once the liberal platform breaches real problems with real solutions, then let's debate. Until then, let the names fly and head's roll... I don't like to be lied to nor made to believe in something that isn't real, is anti-American and the solutions to which are contrary to our Country's moral, ethical and/or socio-economic foundations.

California passed a law last year that allows a CHILD to get an abortion WITHOUT having to tell the parents. WTF?!?! How is this law supposed to promote strong family values that have served this country extremely well since it was founded? Guess what? It was a manufactured liberal issue that was PRESSED on Californians (I live here, I know). Or how its been debated that parent's don't have the right to 'spy' on their minor children who live with them?!!? Are you serious? Or, how some schools out here require that their students attend gay right's parades?!?! Have you seen what happens at these things? Sadomaschism ring a bell? And grade schoolers are made to go there?!?! Sick people would make a kid witness that. Or, the fact that liberals oppose "Jessica's Law"? Why? No reasonable person can oppose that, unless they like children getting raped and killed, all the while allowing judges to hand out light sentences (if any incarceration at all).

Liberalism is DANGEROUS. Plain and simple. And therefore, it's ideals shouldn't even be debated, but rather, stiffled.

The central and unspoken purpose of these laws, among practically all liberal-based legislation, is to take away from the family and other tradtional support structures and to give this authority to the state which is becoming increasingly liberal itself. Again, its all a communist mentality.

Communism is bad and deserves no credence in America... that's why after nearly 50 years, we finally brought the USSR to its knees (a glaring Communist failure).

Socially liberal is akin to free to be you and me, and to hell with our country's moral and ethical foundations.

As a matter of fact, I think this thread deserves no further discussion, as no one can bring forth any facts to support any liberal ideology and/or law mentioned herein as being realistic or worthy of consideration.

 

Ya, what he said! I had to look several of these words up. Gotta love public education................

 

Me too...and I my son and daughter were taught to shoot, pistols, shot guns and rifles...but they did not have toy guns...I just don't think there is anything "toy" about guns.

But I have shot people, way too many. And I hope never again.

My point is that a gun is a gun and there are only three reasons to have them...collection, hunting, and deadly force self-defense. If toy guns were collectables, or use for games to pretend to hunt that would be OK...but you and I know that toy guns are implements for pretend killing of other humans.

 

Bah!

The Peoples Republic Of Berkeley should not be confused for part of California.

It's like the Hong Kong of California. Friggin hippies.:gtfoslap:

 

That said

If you look at the funding that they're looking to revoke, god I kinda wish it would be hahaha.

... a college student project, with a million dollar funding. Pork anyone?

So these programs focus around providing gourmet organic lunches to schools. Almost $350,000 to provide organic gourmet lunches? ARE YOU KIDDING?!?!

Ok. The ferry, fair enough. They want a ferry from Gilman Street in SF to Berkeley. Partially for alternative transportation to the Bay Bridge which blows, as well as a contingency in case of earthquake.

IMO, they should cut that garbage whether or not the city council apologized to the Marines or not.

 

I'd like to jump in again and make (what I believe to be) a salient point....

The older I get, the more I come to realize that some things are not as they seem. An ancient platitude, "never judge a book by it's cover" became a cliche decades ago... But it still has its relavance in the proper situation....

With specific respect to Roy, (our own beloved Prof) he paid his dues in the jungles of Viet Nam. He fought and killed the Chinese and the NVA in the name of liberating the people of that country... He saw more bloodshed and (himself) shed as much so called "enemy" blood than even he wishes to recall.... That leaves profound and permanent scars on a person's soul.... Especially a person of quality, conscience and decency.

For this reason, Roy's perceptions, his feelings and his intellect have been changed forever.... Some for the better....perhaps, some not..... I believe that the emotional and intellectual nature of the Prof led him through an even deeper jungle after returning home from Nam.... A jungle of doubt and disbelief...of disappointment, hatred for the bloodshed .... and the ubiquitous question, "and for what...?"..

It would be a mistake for anyone to presuppose any lack of patriotism, sense of duty or lack of objectivity on the part of my dear friend, the Prof.... He served his country well..... For my money, he's as good as anyone that I know.... I may disagree with some of his ideas about how some things should be done.... But I can never argue with his sense of justice, his intellect or his desire to do what's right....

The Professor is a patriot... He is my dear friend...and a hero...... I'd trust him with my life..... and that's no horseshit...

tadp

 

First, Prof, thank you for your service, I was unaware of your heroism. My hat is truly off to you.

Second, I wouldn't question his patriotism, even if he was a flamming liberal. Liberalism is full of good intentions, but the most horrid of consequences. Being a good person doesn't mean you're wise (not directed at Prof).

 

well, it seems we are very close in our thinking. i also consider myself an indy, though i lean more towards a conservative point of view mainly because i was raised by my grandfather who just happened to retire a marine full bird colonel.

my hat is def off to you roy, you have served and been to war, i could never argue with a thing you have to say on that subject.

i am also against toy guns for children to play with. as a child myself, the only real toy gun i had was a musket pistol my father bought me at disneyland....which i think i lost while diggin a bunker in the backyard. :search:

if youre every in the bay area, give me a pm. i would gladly take you to the nearest pub and buy a couple rounds.

 

steve - your comments, and those of roy, echo many of the perspectives i also have. i have always been looked at with a crooked look since moving here to the south when i say socially i am more liberal, but fiscally i am more conservative......
i don't feel comfortable with my kids playing with guns and i grew up in the military. i feel women should choose, prayer is in the church, not the school, etc. bottom line, i find myself often in the middle ground and really struggle getting on board with any one canidate these days....

 

The real embarrassment of being a person who claims to be a social liberal and a fiscal conservative is that our greatest and most vocal spokesperson was....and I shudder to put this in writing....was Jessie Ventura...to have been accurately defined by a professional wrestler is to say the least ignominious! But be that as it may...I believe we are the real moderates that seek to decipher the extreme positions of the far left and the far right...and find a tolerable and effective middle road that just possibly can reach out to both sides and be inclusive in solving problems. (There I go being a flaming liberal again with unrealistic good intentions.)

 

Let's not forget he WAS a frogman! "Most" SF/SOF types that I've met, including myself, are socially liberal (about abortion) and fiscally conservative.

 

lol, its kinda endearing. :happy:

 

*puts on his riot gear*

I'm going to preface my wading into the fray by saying I'm a Radical Centrist. It is imperative that we understand and resolve the root issues of both sides of the debate in order to nullify the basis of the arguement. I'm a social liberal, fiscal conservative, pro-imperialism hawk, who encourages dialog as a means of logic and reason and not shout rhetoric at one another. Listen. Understand. Even if you disagree. Don't just shout rhetoric louder and louder in hopes that someone mistakes it for logic and reason.

You realize the conditions that create these riots are the poor and jobless who are excluded from access to opportunity. Address the poverty and equality and the self determination of the poor, you wont have the riots you see now. It's the right of the poor to rise up and destroy the wealth of the rich in order to establish that there is a need for social and economic access to equality, opportunity, and dignity. The Mob of Rome kept the wealthy elite honest, for fear of their life. It's also more than the "Muslims" that are rioting. Nice spin tho. Being poor transcends religious identity.

Canada and many European countries hold a higher standard of health care per capita than America AND they spend half of what we do per capita! Let's see ... more than just the wealthy have quality care ... and we spend less money ... hmm. They have longer waits for better care for less cost and they have lower infant mortality rates, better elderly care, and better mental health programs. Whoops. Not killing off the poor fast enough I guess. Socialist bastards! :tooth:

Actually the stifling of intellectualism and is rather anti-American in that free speech is protected :usflag:. Our constitution protects the ideas. This is what I was saying above in that screaming rhetoric over one another is not rooted in the logic and reason of intellectual debate. Greek philosophy anyone? Critical thinking? Come on now, we all learned this in school. If we didn't, maybe we should start eh? How can anyone asset that what we're doing is the absolute best that can be done without improvement? How can we have improvement without ideas? What does it mean when we're squelching intellectual debate?

Why do the attacks against liberalism always contain the context of 'I'm right, you're wrong, get over it.' Aren't we all for the same principles? You know, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. So we allow our neighbors to immigrate here. So we show what a shame our society is by attempting to have some nationalistic craze where we shun the very people we ALL once were. Immigrants. They're our life blood, they're who we are. They're who founded America. That we have some European ethnocentric dominant culture psychosis that suggests that because some white guys imposed a line on a map, that the people who live on the other side of it are less than dignified. Or that they deserve less than the basic dignity to find peace, prosperity, and liberty. Or the 'assault on strong family' through the rights of gay marriage. Because the church has a monopoly on marriage? NEWS FLASH: Abraham was married. His sons founded the modern religions. Oops, marriage predates the religions who claim its their mandate to control it. Marriage is discriminatory and merely a ceremony. We should abolish all federally blessed marriages and create a legal framework civil unions for all people who peruse love of another. It's their right. Abolish welfare, and you have what you get in France. We do a good job of feeding fast food and pretty baubles to our poor in order to maintain the illusion of prosperity while feeding our the capitalist monster we all love. Otherwise, we get rioting Mobs tearing down the ability of the people to create wealth by denying others self determination. :magic:

I love moral relativism. So many are so highly invested in it, yet it means nothing except to the person shouting it. We're a free nation not bound by the morality of others. Catholic, Muslim, Pagan, agnostics. I refer to a classic Suicidal Tendencies song; "Just because you don't like it, don't mean it's no good." Remember, when the disparity becomes too great, the poor become the revolution.

:starwars: :boxing: :viking:

 

Hot Damn! Who was that masked man...?

I may have to borrow some of your lines...the last time i asked permission, my request was spurned.

Now we have really got this thread going...don't stop now...who is next?

And for those of us outside of California...what the hell is going on in Berkley?

 

its kind of died down now. as most loser parades do, but the freaks are still out there a bit last time i passed by.