Electronic Shift Kit (homemade)

You guys seen this?

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=176001

 

Yup, have plans to order...i'll post up how well it works and my opinion.

 

I'm wondering how that works? He never says. It looks like he is attenuating an analog signal? I think all connections from the PCM to the TCM are digital. If that's the case then he would be modifying signal(s) from the transmission. Which ones?

 

Maybe we need to get him (351 Freak) over here to explain....
I sent him a request.

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As much as I love the enthusiasm, he will need to become a Supporting Vendor here.

As long as it is in discussion about the product itself and NOT an attempt to solicit the product (which this thread is in a round about sort of way) or his business.

Thank you.

 

Hopefully David will chime in. He's a smart fellow and enjoys fast cars as we do. I won't get into how it works, I'll let him explain that. However, I had one in my car for a short time and sold it because I didn't need it after the Paramount Tranny went in.
Heres my two cents: It does exactly what David says it will do. It increases line pressure resulting in much snappier shifts. YOu can see a big difference as soon as you pull out of Park and into Drive. No slop, no hesitation, bang and you are in gear. It made my car much funner to drive as a daily driver. Kinda like back in the day with my old Chevy 350 and a shift kit. With that being said, I didn't run it at the track. I did however, take it for some WOT runs prior to taking it out and the WOT shifts were slightly better than stock if not about the same. My take on that is when the RPM's rise, the line pressure decreases. I hope this sheds a little light on the "Box".

 

He can just explain how it works, no pricing discussed.

Maybe he will become a vendor if this thread has much interest.

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Somehow I doubt that. With over 15 pages of thread on lxforums he did not offer a single technical detail...

 

I wouldn't either as he has a lot of time and r&d involved. But I got one on the way and will try it out on SRT and Charger R/T

 

Not positive but i read somewhere it doesnt work with all the cars for somereason.

 

Ok, knowing the trannys intimately, here is what it does:
Varies the voltage to the solenoids you may know as Blue tops or Brown tops.
Zero volts is like limp in mode...MAXIMUM pressure throughout the tranny.

What concerns me is what pressures are then present in the tranny.
With my Valve body or built tranny I can tell you exactly every pressure in the tranny.
This is important to know because the "Blue tops" will take the torque converter internal pressure (lube pressure) to an extremely high level in 1st gear and REDUCE your effective stall speed.

If this is used in my trannys, kiss your warranty good by. I have my line pressures dialed in exactly where they will do you and your tranny the most good.
Bill

 

Correct. I believe "Bluebee" from Oregon had an issue with the car going into neutral while driving and also some codes involved. A 180* Tsat (cooler engine) was thought to be the culprit.

 

He already responded to this thread on LX forums. He doesn't want to jepordize his relationship because he is a not a registered vendor and he does not wnat to cross the line. He is only at LX Forums. He did post his phone number.
I have heard a lot of pretty impressive results from the box.
I am fairly sure it works juct as BB said.

It is a nice stepping stone to the BB valve body or BB Nag1.
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=176001[/QUOTE]

 

I went through the whole 17 pages in detail. One blue bee was throwing codes. Had a high stall tc and 170 t-stat. The guy who made it was speculating it had to do with temps? and/or the tc. I wasn't completely convinced he knew exactly how it worked either... It sounded like he took the external spec in great detail and designed his thing to that. But that maybe there are a lot of conditions, internal tables, interactions that aren't characterized. He's a CMR tuner and will adjust your torque management to better work with the device (up or down was unclear), but more than once, said "tuners have told me... that this table or that... can cause problems". Not really tested. No track measurements, no line pressure measurements. Pretty much was "it's been run for weeks with no problems". It's something that I, personally, would wait about 6 months or so to see how it pans out. Might be the cat's ass, but it doesn't seem it's fully understood right now.

Best I can infer is that it's fooling the TCM into thinking it's under more load/pedal that it actually is. Stock, I think your car shifts harder and faster at WOT than, say, 35% load/throttle. If you amplified that/those parameters into the TCM it's going to shift harder/faster at less load/throttle. He says it's not aimed at performance but more at getting that muscle car/shift kit feel. So the effect tapers off as you approach WOT. Sounds like he is compressing the ramp from 0% to 100%. Very much like that Sprint Booster thingie. Unlike the sprint booster which is pretty much useless, this would have the desired effect on the TCM/transmission. ...it's just that I'm not convinced there may be other effects as well that just aren't known yet.

I have no idea and it doesn't appear likely that I will since details don't seem to be forthcoming.

One guy over there was rooting for him and said he's unemployed and give support. The guy immediately came back saying he's NOT a charity case and that his primary goal is not to make money off of it but to be known as someone who helped out the community.

All that I've said above might sound a little negative/dubious but I didn't mean it that way and you shouldn't imply that. It's just ... unknown at this point.

 

Thanks Nathan.

He is more than welcome to join here and talk technical. No problem with that at all.

Also, I am in no way going to solicit this forum on a competing forum. lol To me, it is unethical. If he is interested in becoming a SV here, he can join and then contact me or one of the staff.

I do appreciate him leaving his number, but it was done on LXF and I respect Dave and the others too much to take down his number and call. It's a Ron thing.

 

Ouick it's very simple.
The NAG1 has Pulse Width Modulated Solenoids for line and shift pressure, capture and modify the pulse width on the Line and Shift Pressure Solenoid Valves input harness wires, modify the signal and it will increase the transmission pressures.
Result better/faster shifting.
Kinda like the old days of swapping springs.

 

Ahhh, yes. I finally figured out (a day or two ago) that what he was modulating was the control signal between the TCM and the transmission. NOT the signals between the PCM and TCM or directly crossing/inputting anything into the TCM. I wasn't sure what the signal to the transmission was doing or where it was going but your explanation is the missing piece that makes it all clear. Thanks!

... haha, Now the question is, "What's the tradeoff?", if any?
If there is actually no difference at WOT, can we assume that line and shift pressures at WOT are pretty much max (100% signal)?
So if he's just amplifying the signal does it "cap" at some amplitude -- does not go over 100%
If the above is true it would follow that line and shift pressures are not going over the max (WOT) when it was stock.
That should mean that you're not paying anything with the transmission. In fact, you should be increasing life with less time slipping the clutches.

Then there is the increased impact of a hard/firmer shift? Would that be true? Are we experiencing those same forces throughout the driveline at WOT anyway? and the shift firmness at part throttle is strictly a comfort/feel thing?

 

My guess would be to use a DMM on the input pins of the transmission connection and record the voltage at WOT.
Now if the Mercedes solonoids are used maybe they are a little longer and raise the pressure just a little more withou the "box" Also remember torque management (fuel, spark.) also occures at WOT shift so thats another stumbling block too along with TCM stratagy

 

Hello SRTCONNECTION...

1st...a big thanks to netnathan for inviting me over ;-)

2nd...an even bigger thanks to 1bad4dr for extending the opportunity to talk TECH...and only tech...

Before I address the technical information...lets just make sure we're clear so everyone understands... I am here to address some of the technical information that I have read about the NAG1 transmission that comes straight out of the Chrysler training manuals that I had access to earlier in 2009.

About me: I worked with SpeedFactory for approximately 6 months during 2009. I am just 1 of NUMEROUS tuners that they have used over the last couple of years. I tuned many stock and modified SRT8 vehicles, includung the SpeedFactory race car that spun the Dyno to the tune of 824+ RWHP using the Diablosport CMR software. My tuning background prior to Dodge was Ford / Honda since the early 90's. My personal cars are the 06 Magnum R/T development car and a 90 Mustang GT with a twin turbo 408 and 92 Mustang GT with 347 spraying 300+ Nitrous.

I "L-O-V-E" automatic transmissions...and have screwed around with the Ford junk for over a decade...until I found the NAG1...which appears to be a superior tranny in every way...

So...to jump into the NAG1...

Its just a good ole automatic trans....complete with roller bearings wherever they could stuff them...and some little electric solenoids in place of hydraulic valves...

There is absolutely nothing dramatic or special about it...it still works within the parameters of most automatic trannies...

You start with about 100 psi of line pressure at idle and zero throttle...
The solenoids have the ability to add about 125 psi on top of that...totaling about 225 psi.

Most autos like around 200 psi. 250 psi gets things done with a snap...and 300 psi is typically reserved for race units. These are the guidelines that I have worked around since 1990.

Temperatures are typically 200-250 degrees F...with 275 being the safe limit for long periods and 290 for short spells with really good cooling capacity. Rubber seals break down around 290...so you better be able to cool things down quickly when you get to that point...even though the (current) fluid is typically good for temps well over 300 for long periods.

Most valvebody upgrades will bump pressures at the "base" pressure valve (line pressure) or thru the shift pressure valve by going to a heavier spring. This is one way to do it...and it can work very, very well. But it is a permanent and non-adjustable fix unless you want to swap valvebodies again.

I happen to find that (stock) 225 psi max pressure is adequate for nearly every street applcation...and think that the "adjustable" portion of the line/shift pressure is all that is needed to get the car to a "sporty" feel. Hence the electronic shift kit.

It works as previously mentioned...it compresses and bumps the base pressure that the car "Starts" with. The effect decreases as throttle goes up...because they are both working towards the same goal of "maximum" line pressure...which occurs naturally at WOT.

During part throttle however, where you do 99% of your driving, the effect can be tailored to your driving style...turn the knob up...and pressures go up...and so does the aggressiveness of the shift.

The unit was designed off of the Chrysler electrical specifications and based on my math...each setting should give you a net change of approximately +20% towards maximum pressure.

Because I do not have access to a NAG1 with presure ports, I cannot verify with gauges what the pressures are...but my nearly 20 years of experience backs up what my seat of the pants feel tells me...the numbers are about right.

I have not experienced any stall speed changes on any setting...my stock converter flashes to 2500 rpm on stock ...or setting 6...it just doesn't matter.

Testing has shown that setting 6 can get trans temps to 260 after about 7 eigth-mile back-to-back passes...with a stock trans cooler on a Jeep SRT8 with a 426 and a blower...so like I always tell folks...you can never have too much trans cooler...but again, 260 has never scared me with any of the current trans fluids...they work great under 300.

The only technical "tradeoff" that I can think of for Quick...would be that as base pressure goes up...so does the power required to turn that hydraulic pump inside the trans. I am currently looking into an optional circuit that allows the box to go to an "idle" mode that turns it off when the TPS is at idle...or any other adjustable voltage off of the TPS...that way you can essentially have a "window switch" telling it when to turn on...and how much.

Anyway...enuff for a 1st post...I'll let you guys throw some more stuff out there.


-351Freak
David Camp

 

David..
Thanks for coming over to answer some questions. I think you answered quite a few with your first explanation (and post.... but.... now don't forget to go to the "newbie" section and introduce your self......lol).
Hopefully there will be enough interest for you to become a vendor here.

Ron...
Thanks for letting David come over to talk TECH.

David..
As long as we keep the temperature down (I guess by using setting "6" as little as possible) is there any other negative effect on any tranny box from your "electronic shift box"?
I guess this will probably depend on which setting we use the most in daily driving?
I undersatnd that settings 1-3 are the most daily driver friendly. Which one is the stock setting?
Will it shorten the life of the solenoids if used continually at 4 or above?

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