Bud vs. Momo (NA vs. Blower)

I'm sure your not alone in this! Especially for $6K or more after install and so forth.............................................................izza:

 

Let me provide some backround about pre-packaged supercharger kits and what to expect.
A fully packaged S/C system from Vortech, Procharger or anyone else comes with a tune that is designed to get the car up and running and be safe above and beyond everything else. The tune also needs to be capable of being used on cars in different parts of the country with different altitudes and conditions. There is no way this tune will ever be as optimized as a tune you can get by a tuner for your specific car. Keep in mind the S/C company does not want to send a prepackaged tune that will blow up a car right out of the box, expecially in Vortech's case where they have the option of a drivetrain warranty attached. This is a new product for us just as it is for Vortech and Procharger etc. But we have sold countless Vortech Systems for Fords over the years, and these also come w/ a preprogrammed tune, however we almost always provide one of our own tune, and also suggest that the customer get a custom dyno tune to maximize the results. Here is a personal example, way back when...Lisa still had her stock motor in her mustang and installed an S-Trim Vortech S/C and the prepackaged Steeda/Diablo/Vortech Safe tune only put out about 285rwhp, the car had 260 hp stock at the motor!, with a simple Custom tune the and no additional mods she picked up another 30+ hp, easily and still had an ultra safe tune. I know alot of you guys are new to forced induction, but this is typically the case. There is nothing wrong w/ the canned tunes, but they are super safe, and not maximized..they are a one size fits all tune. It is a starting point...not an ending point.
To have a tune that is as good as the stock Vortech tune to start from is actually pretty nice, I have seen much worse from a canned tune from a manufacturer. I havent had my car on the dyno, but if the canned tune is as fat as you guys say it is then there is so much more potential it is not even funny. But you cannot expect a 10 a/f ratio tune to be the maximum available. If you have a good tuner you should still be able to tweak the tune and be safe, but obviously like anything there are risks. Be happy we are all starting with pretty much stock cars once you start seriously modding your car, a canned tune isnt even an option and everything is custom... Just wanted to share a little background from our experiences.

One more thing to keep in mins...S/C companies are in the business of producing S/C not tuning vehicles. You don't go to a tuner expecting to get a S/C installe dproperly, and you can't expect a S/C company to have the most maximized tune either. I can't honestly think of anyone I know runnign a S?C of any brand for any length of time that runs a canned tune...typically that is a short term deal and you get a custom tune. Would you run heads and cam on a stock tune or a canned tune? No you would get a custom tune...same applies to forced induction.

 

Kris, I hear what you are saying and fully agree with you. But, unless folks are planning on forgoing the warranty, they need to know that they are basically paying for ONE (1) car length for $6000 + tax, and installation "OUT OF THE BOX". So the marketing aspect of getting a blower warrantied needs a HUGE Astrix beside the advertisement. Also, PEAK HP means nothing when it is losing hp everywhere else!

 

Thats my plan. don't think they liked the 2 stage nitrous idea?

 

it is only one car length compared to your modded srt, but if you want to give mine a try when i get it back and tuned then i am game. remember the next mod will have to be the kithen sink because really that is all that's left. lol

 

I hear you buddy. I'm talking apples to apples....NOT apples to oranges. Jason and I had exactly the same mods prior to the blower. That's why we did the comparison! I think that three (3) Vortech SC'ed cars (albeit with a crappy tune) ONLY pulling a 1/2 to 1 car length on me should enlighten folks to the "out of box" tune. I'd take Dave's advise and save the Vortech tune and get a REAL tune. And, IF anything ever happens just throw the Vortech tune back in. That is of course if they KNEW what they were buying....An Air Hammer on steroids.

 

Let me state this in no uncertain terms.

I am pleased with Vortech's product, staff and the heritage of the company... otherwise, despite the insane deal, I would not have allowed them to tinker on my precious Charger. The folks at Vortech treated all of us SD guys with friendliness and a ton of enthusiasm. The blower and all its components and install are incredible. Zero complaints.

I am only disappointed in their packaged tune. That is it. And... the tune is easily fixed.

 

Who isn't disappointed with something they buy for the first time! For most of us this is our first and most likely only supercharger! I'm not nor will I ever bash VORTECH, their product and especially the employees I dealt with. They were all top notch. For me, I always expect more, especially from something I spend my hard earned $ and time on. If I had to do all over again, "I WOULD DO IT IN A HEART BEAT"! The thing is we can get a whole hell of a lot more out of what we already have. I can't wait to see what my sled will do with a top notch tune.............................................................:dancinlock:

 

Vortech is a GREAT company with GREAT superchargers. ALL Jason did was inform the masses prior to spending the money on the blower to know that if they want to get what they expect they are going to have to get a "performance" tune and forgo the warranty of the blower. "I" personally don't give two shits about the warranty...but, there are those that do, and this a "public" forum and sharing information/experiences is what makes a forum great.

 

Exactly.

My bright idea is this: Vortech should package a SECOND tune with these packages, entitled: "Track use only, will void warranty if used". Include this tune via email. Keep the 'safe' tune as 'standard' and ramp it up to 'kick everyone's ass' with the 'track only tune'. That way, they cover their warranty issues and stop any potential complaints from prospective buyers who will spend $6000+++ for the package & install.

 

Kris,
I am interested in what you said about optional drivetrain warranty. I didnt see this anywhere in my paper work and none of the people up there talked about this with me. When I asked I was told the head unit and possibly the add ons they added. Such as the boost a pump and after cooler.

 

Every Vortech S/C system to my knowledge has a 3 Year Unlimited Mileage warranty on the headunit etc, this is voided when changing the stock pulley etc. However last year Vortech rolled out an optional warranty for the drivetrain, this is an extra dn is only avilable when the install is done by certain approved Vortech dealers or Vortech themselves I assume, not when done on your own or by an outside shop. There is an additional cost for teh warranty, but as long as you do not change the Vortech tune or swap teh pulleys etc, the warranty stands.
Here is the powertrain warranty info
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/global_item.php?gik=261&section=News

Here is teh standard warranty included for all Vortech Systems which covers the Vortech system itself
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/download.php?dir=pdf/guides&file=warranty.pdf

 

I meant for this post to be here, but it ended up in another thread.

Lets not forget guys that this is CARB legal kit. So you'll be getting a CARB legal tune with it. I know that there are MANY who don't live in California, but for those of us that do the little yellow sticker (and passing tune) is essential for the long term.

The way I look at this kit is that you're buying hardware and smog-passing tune. If you're looking for maximum performance from the hardware, you should budget money for a CMR tune too.

This isn't a any different than when buying heads and cam. In that case, you're only paying for hardware (and maybe a base tune) and still need a CMR tune to get max performance from those parts.

To those who are upset about price. This is still a good deal. I paid 3500 or so for my heads and cam and got 75 RWHP. This kit costs roughly double that, but with a good tune you can also get double the horsepower. When you're talking motor hardware, nothing is cheap.

 

I think there is some confusion about the Warranty's and maybe Vortech needs to be more clear about that. The warranty on the headunit itself and is not dependent on the tune, however if you pay for the additional drivetrain warranty it does mean you are "stuck" with the canned tune.
This is similar if you were to buy a factory supercharged car like a 03/04 Cobra, if you blow it up w/ the factory conservative tune and pulley it is warrantied, if you change things to make the tune much better than you are on your own. Same applies if you buy a Ford Whipple to put on your Mustang or a Saleen or Roush blower. They come w/ a pre-canned tune and a factory warranty, but if you change it, then you are SOL if something goes wrong. That said I would say 90% of people that install these blowers drive directly to a tuner after installing a blower and get a custom tune warranty or not...LOL
Bottom line, most aftermarket mods especially superchargers come with no option of a warranty at all and still come with a very conservative tune...it is the nature of the beast. It is in the company's best interest to not grenade cars with a product they supplied and engineered, and by running a safe tune this minimizes risk.

I will say I have only had mine running since the weekend, and have not romped on it at all ( and I wont until we get all the gauges on), but it is night and day from a stock or bolt on car. Even with the canned tune. I am thinking the California Carb tune is even more conservative than what the rest of us have out of the box.

 

Interesting. I will have to ask John up there if thats what he gave us as extra warranty. Hell if thats the case thats even better but I didnt find any paper work for that.

 

adam, im sure that this is just their first time with a SC and that the mild tune is getting them a bit heated under the collar. as you know and the rest of us do, nothing is cheap when you want to go fast.

 

aman to that.

 

+1...

 

John, did he send you the warranty and paperwork, i.e. oil change proceedures, etc, or did you look it up? He said he was going to send it to us.

 

I know all of us down here are aware of this!:sly:

If it is your first or 10th S/C, each car and system work differently together. FOR ME I LOVE THIS SYSTEM, BUT IF I CAN GET MORE OUT OF IT GREAT! I'VE NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING TO PISS ANYONE OFF, MUCH LESS GIVEN SOMEONE SOMETHING NEGATIVE TO SAY ABOUT OUR CURRENT SYSTEM. EVERYTHING POSTED ON HERE IS THE TRUE LIFE EXPERIENCE OF THOSE DRIVING THE CAR OR THOSE THAT HAVE EXPERIENCE IN WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. I APPRECIATED THE HONESTY THAT IS POSTED ON THIS PUBLIC FORUM AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE NOBODY IS CALLING BS ON ANYTHING POSTED TO DATE. If one person can say they have learned something from these post's then great. (I KNOW I HAVE!) :friends: