Any more word on Predator meltdowns?

[HalV48]

I've been very busy that last month, and haven't had much time for the other forums. Do we know how many self tuners did damage to their cars?

I had heard of 5, and I think they where all H/C cars.

I had started a thread at the oc about rookies tuning their own cars.
I stated that IMHO that anyone with H/C trying to tune on their own would be asking for it.

I don't want names mentioned, and some may not have admitted to it happening to them, but I'm curious to how this is playing out.

 

[1bad4dr]

Been very quiet on that front Hal...

 

[Hemi31]

I haven't heard of anymore but I will bet there were a dozen more we didn't hear about.....Here's a piston from the motor I changed out on BBH's meltdown....

I just had mine CMR tuned and I can tell you this......I started out with A/F's in the mid to high 12's on the B&G with a tailpipe sniffer and the car wanted more fuel.I ended up in the low 12;s with a dip into the 11's and the car made 20 more hp and 25lbft of torque across the entire power band.......these motors love fuel!And I have no knock!

 

[HEMISFEAR]

II just had mine CMR tuned and I can tell you this......I started out with A/F's in the mid to high 12's on the B&G with a tailpipe sniffer and the car wanted more fuel.I ended up in the low 12;s with a dip into the 11's and the car made 20 more hp and 25lbft of torque across the entire power band.......these motors love fuel!And I have no knock!

Damn, that's a nice gain. That was a gain from your B&G Stage III right E? Sweet...I can tell you guys I was on the dyno 2 weeks ago with a local guy (WPRacing) who is an authorized SCT dealer and a huge Ford fanatic but loves all domestic muscle cars..anyways, we hooked up the wideband to the 02 and with my mods as well as the 93 CAI tune and no other changes...my A/F ratio was 13.6:1 with KTR as high as -4.5*. After a little while with the handheld alone and always running Sunoco 94, we made 406 rwhp and 424.4lb ft of trq with a 12.6 A/F ratio and 0* KTR...Now I feel much more comfortable doin' WOT blasts. I don't think DiabloSport has conclusively stated why sooooo many people either stock or stock with a CAI (or close to that) are seeing so much KR. Gas? Ethanol-blend (nah), oil in the intake....who knows?

 

[LegMaker]

milan - those are some impressive numbers....... goes to show the importance of knowing what you are doing and how cmr tuning can be very effective in getting the most out of the cars!!

 

[GotStroke?]

You can see up to 8 degrees of ST KR with a stock tune. ST KR is nothing to worry about and will fluctuate with every tank of gas. You need to keep an eye on total KR and LT KR.

 

[HEMISFEAR]

milan - those are some impressive numbers....... goes to show the importance of knowing what you are doing and how cmr tuning can be very effective in getting the most out of the cars!!

Hey Chris....no CMR for me yet buddy...my tune was done solely using the handheld..adding fuel across all three RPM ranges made my car one happy 6.1L. Put up at least 12 more horsies and 14 lb feet of trq to the wheels from the 93 CAI canned tune.


...oh and more reliably too.

 

[HEMISFEAR]

You can see up to 8 degrees of ST KR with a stock tune. ST KR is nothing to worry about and will fluctuate with every tank of gas. You need to keep an eye on total KR and LT KR.

This is what we did. Or were you just stating facts outside my case?

 

[LegMaker]

Hey Chris....no CMR for me yet buddy...my tune was done solely using the handheld..adding fuel across all three RPM ranges made my car one happy 6.1L. Put up at least 12 more horsies and 14 lb feet of trq to the wheels from the 93 CAI canned tune.


...oh and more reliably too.

very nice!!! :towel:

 

[GotStroke?]

This is what we did. Or were you just stating facts outside my case?

Corrrect, just in general. Lately there's been a lot of talk on the net about CMR tunes not getting rid of ST KR, which is why I posted that.

 

[BrilliantBlackHemi]

Deleted.

 

[LegMaker]

ouch!!!bbh....... i feel for ya buddy!

 

[HEMISFEAR]

Corrrect, just in general. Lately there's been a lot of talk on the net about CMR tunes not getting rid of ST KR, which is why I posted that.

Cool...I read the same thing. With the my current tune I did see a spec of 1.5* ST KR...but was told not to worry about it.

 

[NetNathan]

Does the DashHawk monitor KR and advance? I would like to see where I am at or is more important to know AF?
I don't see it in any of my DashHawk displays.
I am running unmodified 91 CAI Predator tune with raised shift points. Should I push fuel tables or wait for AF data?

 

[HEMISFEAR]

Does the DashHawk monitor KR and advance? I would like to see where I am at or is more important to know AF?
I don't see it in any of my DashHawk displays.
I am running unmodified 91 CAI Predator tune with raised shift points. Should I push fuel tables or wait for AF data?

Hmm...hard to say since many have had better experiences once they switched to the 91 CAI tune..Yes the Dashhawk does monitor it...I think ou have to choose the parameter from your PC and downloaded it to the Dashhawk itself IF the Dashhawk is not currently showing it when hooked to the car...I would think getting an A/F reading and on a dyno will answer any questions you may have and then you can add accordingly...I had to add 5%, 8% and 8% across the range to get my AF down to 12.6....which is probably more like 12.5-12.4:1 now since I had the wideband meter hooked after the highflow cat...but 13.6 was a bit too scary for me.

On another note, I'm not fully convinced the raised shift points (at least for my setup is really worth the risk) on the dyno the car's power didn't drop drastically after 6000rpm but it did and when I shift at the 6200, it still feels hella strong...I will definitely be trying this at the track next season....if it makes a significant diff in my times...I may choose to run with it (raised) at the track.

 

[GotStroke?]

Cool...I read the same thing. With the my current tune I did see a spec of 1.5* ST KR...but was told not to worry about it.

I see 4.5 but again, not worried about it. On another note I just installed a FAST dual band A/F meter in my Jeep last week and absolutely love it. Easy to use and lets me know exactly where I am on the street, opposed to the dyno which always reads richer.

 

[Quick]

Does the DashHawk monitor KR and advance? I would like to see where I am at or is more important to know AF?
I don't see it in any of my DashHawk displays.
I am running unmodified 91 CAI Predator tune with raised shift points. Should I push fuel tables or wait for AF data?

Yes, your DashHawk will monitor the knock sensors (voltage) and the knock retard (I think it's degrees of timing?). The knock retard can be/is a result of A/F (too lean). So in that sense A/F is probably most important since you can be running too rich as well as too lean. I believe that if you're running too lean you WILL have knock. Too lean --> detonation and detonation == knock.

Not sure if the DashHawk will monitor all the sensors but it will at least get the first ones on both sides. On the log below I have the cursor set to where I was lugging the motor in 3rd. It touches 4.5 for knock retard. Same on WOT. It will knock retard for an instant immediately following a shift when it applies full throttle at the bottom of the next gear. I'm assuming this is what GotStroke is referring to as ST knock retard?

 

[GotStroke?]

ST = Short Term, which does spike during shifts so it's likely the same thing on a Dashawk (I don't have one) I use my Predator to log.
Also remember that timing plays a critical role in knock--too much timing will cause the same conditions (knock) as not enough fuel. You want to have A/F nailed down first then adjust timing accordingly from there.

 

[HEMISFEAR]

Everytime we touched timing...I would see more KR so we left it with just the addition of fuel in the 3 ranges..I'm sure a CMR tune would better things some but will be waiting until I install heads and headers.

 

[GotStroke?]

With a competent tuner you'll love what CMR tuning can do for you.