Head and Cams Tech Thread

And IIRC it was the turbo Dodge guys with the 2.5l bottom ends that found the additional advantage of the 2.0l cams, even running the cams well into the 10s and on numerous big turbo setups.

So lets hear why they aren't decent cams again, please :thumb3:

 

Dissing cams is no big deal, but having no clue how cams work in the first place is where your argument went dead. Lope does not equal more power on these cars; that's the first thing you need to understand.

Are you kidding on the motor pull comment? Do you realize how easy the motors are to pull and put back in on these cars?

 

i run crane 14's with good results, they're a hated cam for some reason, not sure why. but there's no reason not to use them, they're best on a little big turbo though lol

rasp - you don't have to pull the motor to put cams in......so i'm not sure what point that's trying to prove.

doing cams and gears isn't a 8 hour job, it's maybe 2-3 to install and then tuning which doesn't take 5 hours. total it's probably about a 4, maybe 5 hour job.

cams though are something that should be a last mod. there are other things that you can do that will give you more benefit when you're modding. if you're trying to get every hp out of the motor that you can get then you grab a set of cams and go tune.......

 

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/Camshafts.htm

Read up on that a bit, particularly the part about valve lift.

 

My motor comment was in response to his comment that it takes 8 hours to install cams and tune cams.

Cams shouldn't be a last mod at all. You have a big turbo setup and are looking for quicker spool, or have an EMS and looking for better-than-factory peak power where the powerband doesn't drop, good cams will give you results you need.

And you will see the most benefit from good cams on a ported head.

And there's nothing wrong with the 14s. They spool a turbo faster, but their only problem is that they fall short on the top end, especially if you have a raised rev limit.

 

if you're big turbo and/or are running a ems you're not in the beginning stages of modification.

the statement was meant for those on stock turbos, minimal mods and ecu control considering upgrading cams (hence the beginnings of modification routes). in that situation there are other things that should take precedent over cams, and other options for supporting mods that are more important. cams shouldn't be #1 on the list of things to buy in that situation. if all the supporting mods are done, then it's a good option.

 

You should have an EMS before you drop the money for a big turbo, period. Everyone and their brother has a .50 trim, which is considered a "big turbo." Even on the 35R, though, these cams made a big improvement on spool time.

They'll work fine to hold me over until I find a set of good CROWER cams (not Brian Crower).

I guess the "last mod" comment had me scratching my head, since they're clearly not a "last mod."

 

Rasp, I never said lope equals more power... you said that.

PSI CHick... After doing more research since that statement, I would consider Crane 14's or BC stage 2's, on my setup. Also, that's what I did say CAMS/CAM GEARS/ AND TUNE = 8 hours.

 

Wait wait wait... "Big Turbo'd, cammed, ported, forged, cryo-treated and then some" and you go with 2.0l cams?

 

Then why are you saying lope on turbo motors is good when it clearly isn't?

 

Lots of skepticism around the cams, so I decided to put them in and see what kinds of numbers I can get out of them.]

18s is what I normally use, and even those tuned give very little lope. Those must be tiny cams, though, too!

 

I've seen numerous of dyno sheets of these cars of different cams available for these cars and every aftermarket cams with the right setup gained horsepower and torque. They didn't sacrifice one for the other.

A base and true setting to start at is...
+2/-3 intake/exhaust

Most running this setting gained horsepower and torque.

If the 2.0l cams truly helped your spool then that is great but the time/effort put into it to gain some and lose some was a waste. This is my opinion. I'm not here to argue just stating facts.

 

rasp,

Do you have a way to monitor EGT? I would like to know where they are at with how you have your cams tuned.

 

Where are these facts? I can provide dyno numbers pre and post 2.0l cams, pre and post 16s and 18s. And I don't see how anything on a vehicle is a "waste" if you do it yourself. Why people do a S1 and just don't go to a S2+ is a "waste" to me. Why people pick up the Hahn's 16g turbo is a "waste" to me, I suppose. To each his own.

And no, that's not a "base" setting for cams. That's a "base" setting for 2.0l cams simply because of the LSA difference when compared to stock. Any other cam should be tuned from 0/0 and then on.

 

1620 at WOT via Aeroforce scan gauge, with A/F set at 11.8:1.

 

Post the dyno sheets to show fourth your results. Would like to see proof behind your post. I'm sure others would too and it would benefit this discussion as well as this thread.

Not saying I don't believe you but everyone has a butt dyno.

 

Proof that lope hurts performance on a turbo car? I'm still waiting for these "facts" you gave.

Even stock 2.4l cams can yield power if tuned. You retard the exhaust and you're going to lower compression and increase the powerband. The reversal does the opposite. I guess you could say running 2.0l cams on 0/0 is not beneficial at all and will actually drop performance.

 

Now I got you where I needed to get you at. Providing false information to this thread indeed you are. You say this is a "base" setting for 2.0l cams but all other cams should be tuned from 0/0? Show me proof.

Maybe you've never heard of hydrohopper or Tex on SRTforums. Tex being the Cam guru.

Here's a food for thought...
For Crane .0012 and .0014s, that setting has yield great results.

If you want more proof I'll be happy to quote and school you on some Cam tech.

 

Can't really rely on the EGT readings on the Scangauge. How does it monitor EGT throught the OBDII port? True readings are monitor by tapping into the manifold itself via a probe and actual EGT gauge.

I have a Aeroforce Scangauge Pro myself.

 

I honestly can't believe you're giving "base" advance/retard advice. What works on one car is not going to work on another. Your +2/-3 advice may work for one person, but may work like shit for another. Even Aaron @ Realtune says to start all cams at 0/0 and tune from there. I guess he's wrong there, too.

Again, when I see these "facts" out of you, I'll scan my dyno sheets, but you haven't brought anything of real relevance to the table.