Thread that led to this thread. http://www.srtconnection.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16041 Mainly for you, Dave (Quick). haha On the head Head side of gasket... Blower runner with gasket removed Runner side of gasket
oooh, excellent pics. So... why is it pooling there? Why is it liquid? The leakage problem is crystal clear now. But how come there's so much liquid oil there? That's a lot of oil considering that what leaked should have been a very small portion of what passed -- out the pcv valve and through your catch can... On a N/A engine we're looking at about 20 ml per 1000 miles. You're fouling plugs every 900. That sounds like a lot of oil. Has your catch can filled up or anything? How much are you collecting in the can? anything? How did so much liquid oil collect way up there by the PCV valve?
lol Like a kid in a candy store... tee hee Yes, my catch can fills up. I never really paid attention to mileage, but generally the can will be 3/4 full et every oil change (4K miles). Why is it liquid? Cause it's oil. lol In the pix cam provided (you can see in my pix as well), where Techco moved the PCV valve the gasket for that port does "Not" have any metal support at the # 6 and 8 side, thus allowing the rubber portion of the gasket to flap. Bad design on Techco's part, especially since Techco admitted (to Cam the other night) they new about this problem (they never told me). Techco apparently is blaming a poor gasket design. WTF? Poor gasket design my ASS. The OEM placement of the PCV is in front of the #2 cylinder. Techco "Should" have designed a gasket to match their handy work? haha
Well... no. unless they're pumping liquid oil through the runners or up the PCV vent from the crankcase. That should be vapors or maybe some atomized droplets. And I wouldn't expect all that much condensation there. What oil temps are you running? and what do you think the IAT in the runners is? yea, yea, but sucking some vaporized oil in shouldn't be fouling your plugs. You're probably sucking in liquid oil (and getting some detonation because of it?). So the question (again) is: why is there so much liquid oil there? Is that to be expected? And what is the capacity of the catch can reservoir? 3/4 in 4000 would be about how much? If it's normal to be pushing that much oil out the PCV then I guess that's the way it is but that'd be an eye opener.
Sure. What I meant was stock 6.1L (n/a). They're pretty consistent. And true that Ron's engine doesn't even come close to remotely resembling a stock 6.1L and it's not n/a but... it's a friggin Positive Crankcase Ventilation system, not an oil pump we're talking about. I was just wondering if that amount of liquid oil passing/collecting at that point in the engine was expected/normal. So the 20ml per 1k was just a reference. Would you expect (roughly) 2x, 4x, 10x, ... what? given Ron's engine.
In all honesty, Dave, I don't think anyone can answer your above ? with accuracy as Techco "Moved" the PCV from its factory position. As for the catch can amount, it is about normal from what I was seeing with my old Paxton set up.... The great news is, NO MORE SMOKE on start up. WOOT!!! Next up, change my plugs. lol
Well you have two major things to take into consideration there Mr. Dave. 1: Most guy don't get this one, so I's makes it simple. A majority of the oil collected in the catch can happens during idle and part throttle. That is when vacuum is at it's highest level. 2: If you actually do have a issue with blow by and the crank case does become presurized, then you have an issue. So choose your weapon. And this doesn't even begin to touch on mechanical issues that aren't even ring related. All I'm saying is I've seen motors that have catch cans that remain spotless and others that need to be drained weekly. I'm heading home now, been a long day. Good night.
Yes, and blowby is probably greatest when the engine is cold. Lots of people assume that when they drive their car "hard" they would get more in the catch can. I'm not sure it's that simple though (maybe this is the part you simplified?). Could be other factors. Should have about the highest vacuum at idle or small throttle. That would imply the greatest flow of air through the crankcase and PCV system. But that might *not* result in the most amount of oil accumulating in the catch can. Most of the oil in the catch can is the result of condensation (well, ok, except for maybe Ron's engine where he's pumping liquid oil through the PCV system... j/k). Higher flow/velocity means less time for condensation to take place in the can. It's conceivable that a lower flow rate through the catch can (with less oil vapor passing through there) might actually result in *more* oil condensing out of the flow. It condenses due to cooling and coming in contact with cool surfaces like the stainless mesh and wadding. If it doesn't spend enough time in the can to cool enough not as much condensation will take place. Just speculation. (did you get through moonshine 101? build too big of a fire under the mash and you won't get as much shine). I don't understand this... more explanation please? I've always looked at it this way. Let's say you have a 5 gallon bucket that's half full of steaming water with a breeze blowing across the top. Lets say the breeze turns into a strong wind. Same amount of steam is coming off the water. What is it about blowby or pressurizing the crankcase that results in more oil/vapor/droplets coming out the PCV valve side of the engine/pcv system? I don't understand how pressure in there or blowby causing a greater volume of air/gas to pass through there results in more vapor or liquid oil coming out the PCV valve. Isn't the PCV vent a good ways above the oil level in the crankcase? Maybe blowby vaporizes oil off the cylinder walls below the rings? I have no idea. I can understand it "burping" the intake side of the pcv system but we're not talking about that. I can sort of understand the ring seal issue and oil getting into the combustion chamber but that's going out the exhaust and not into the PCV vent. I assume this is with respect to pressurizing the crankcase? I'll buy that. but why is that? I thought you were on vacation in LA...
Ron, i'll call you back in a few boss...lil busy this morning...I still don't understand why the oil is getting past that gasket...regardless if it has metal "backing", it is being pinched between the head and the runner, maybe try and add copper spray and some extra torque to all your runner bolts...call you back when i can take a breath from the phones here.
Kyle, that's the point. It does not have the metal backing right there like the remainder of the gasket. Dave, it is way to early to even begin to read what ever you fricking wrote.
The metal the rubber is attached to (not backed) don't do shit for the seal. Once it's sandwiched between the the head and the runner, their is no way it can "flap" or lose it's contact just in that area. It has to be pressurized...and a pretty good bit, to get past the rubber, where the "inlet" area of where the liquid oil is being "pumped" from the crankcase. Ron said his catch can was pressurized...dunno, i don't have it in front of me to see or any experience at all...just trying to help.
I understand your point. But what the metal does do is keeps the gasket in place. And being that the metal is .060 thick and the rubber is just rubber, the rubber moves where it's not held in place by the metal. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it gawd damn-it. Now as for why if was either presurized or under vacuum, has nothing to do with the gasket.
haha nope, it's Techco's fault for not fixing the issue after "Moving" the PCV valve. Especially since they were aware of this issue and DID NOT tell anyone. Pieces of SHIT!
try a check valve ron. the skittles will push a ton of oil through the PCV system without one maybe your PCV doesnt like boost.
He lined that area with RTV and it has resolved the issue for now...he has a reason for "band-aiding" it for now, but i'll let him explain.
