one of them has been removed, the other one has been in screwed in and plugged in, at the current moment neither of them are hooked up but my car has not left the garage. I was thinking that I would swap the one that has been used but is disconnected at the moment to replace the upstream one of the side with the lean readings. no, not yet, I've been trying to have PPP look into it, I should call tim too I guess, thanks, good idea.
Not sure about this part... I think there are different ways to "disable" your rear sensors. Suppress the code, disable monitoring the reading, disable both the reading and the heater control. For example, with the predator, the prescribed method is to disable the code/reading but leave them hooked up so the PCM is happy about the heater control circuit. Often people remove the sensors from the exhaust but leave them hooked up to the cable and strap them up under the car. Basically, if your sensor tips have been exposed to the elements riding around under the car or they have been in the exhaust stream for a while without the heater element, they're probably ruined.
they have not been exposed to the elements at all. I beleive they are already disabled but because one of them was disconnected and put in a box in my garage I still get the heater circiut code and a p2000 code which i think is emisions......
Ok. Just checking here. - You've had your rear O2s disabled for some time (still in the pipe with the cables hooked up). - During this time you did not throw any codes. - Some time recently, you removed one of the rear O2s from the pipe, disconnected it from the cable and installed your wideband sensor in it's place. - After installing the wideband you got the heater circuit and p2000 codes. This about right? Have you checked for other codes "behind" the heater circuit and p2000 codes?
when the car was completely stock I had no A/F gauge, upon getting the modifications done we installed an innovative A/F gauge in the drivers side rear o2 bung and left the passenger side o2 installed and plugged in. I now for sure I got the heater circuit code and an occasional random missfire code, I can't remember if I got the p2000: unknown code, I want to say that started a few months ago after the initial install but I'm unsure, I NOW for sure the car ran fine for at least a couple months after the p2000 code popped up and like I said it may have been present sense the beginning I just have this memory of only having two codes in the beginning and now there has been three for a while. I didn't give the p2000 code much thought because I assumed it had to do with the missing/unplugged o2 sensor who's spot was replaced by my innovative A/F gauge simply thinking that because it was an omissions code it was because of the missing o2 sensor forgetting that they were disabled. I was always keeping an eye for any codes like lean cylinder bank 1 or something like that.
Whenever you check for codes you need to check for all the codes that may be there. Any code will trip the check engine light. There could be 1 or more codes present. For any way of checking codes (either doing the key dance to see codes on your EVIC display or using a scan gauge or the predator, etc.) there will be a way to display codes with some sort of "next" until you have cycled through all the codes present. There could always be codes "behind" the first one displayed. That's why everyone wants to get rid of the cat codes (or any code for that matter). The cat codes are only informational but if they light the CEL then you don't know if other codes are being thrown "behind" the cat code that you're expecting. I assume you always check for all the codes that are present. If you're going to swap a sensor, I'd use the one in the box in your garage. I think you could be most sure that one is good.
ok, I see. I use the dashhawk, it tells me that I'm looking at code 1 of 3, 2 of 3, 3 or 3 etc so I think I'm getting them all. I'm looking for the o2 sensor in my garage as we speak, I can't find that one when I need it of course plus I can't get the one on the car removed, its a tight fit in there!!! got any pointers on how to get that one on the car removed, is there a special tool or something for getting in there and getting a good grip on it?
Tim at CIS suggested that I do the throttle pedal calibration, I followed the steps and then started the car, it seemed to be a little better at first but then started struggling and getting lean again. I thought I remembered from the past that when you do the throttle calibration the car chimes or something, I did not get any chimes, just the flashing check engine light but no new codes at least as far as my dashhawk could see. He also informed me that there is a built in o2 bung a little further downstream where there is a y pipe and that I should move my wideband there which sounds great however I'm worried about the one side being leaner than the other side at this point. it also accrued to me that maybe one side is not leaner than the other side, maybe just like this time when I started the car and it appeared to be better, maybe that was the case when I switched the wideband to the other side.
I can't believe I forgot to mention this! the otherday right before I had my car start idling lean, I smelled a hint of fuel in the cabin after I punched it. I accelerated, let off the gas and then about two seconds later the smell entered the cabin. I also just emptied my catch can, its been quite a while and it was completely full. there was also a few drops of oil on the bottom of the transmission right at the seal where it comes apart. I assume it is transmission fluid from where it is but I don't know. I recall having the shop tell me about this quite a hile back when it was in for an oil change. no puddles or anything in the garage just a cople drops gathering on the bottom of the transmission casing.
When you first start the car it goes through the following modes Engine Start-up Mode Engine Warm-up Mode Cruise or Idle Mode (assuming you don't floor it until it's warmed up). In the first two modes are open loop and I think it uses a fixed a/f and doesn't adjust from the narrowbands. Your DashHawk displays whether the PCM is operating in Open loop or Closed loop. It's that little square in the lower right hand corner? (or somewhere). It will invert the background and text colors in one mode or the other and I think(?) it displays an "O" or a "C". I've forgotten which. See if there is a correlation with it getting leaner when the PCM switches into Closed loop operation.
Ummm, smelling fuel in the cabin is never a good thing... I'd track that down first. Then worry about the a/f. Could be related. Having your catch can fill up is not good either but probably not a catastrophe. You might have been dumping small amounts of liquid oil into the manifold. That's going to make it run like you've got bad gas, probably cause some knock under load and I suppose it might even foul plugs (you'd see misfire codes). None of that should cause it to run lean at idle. You should be emptying your catch can every 1,000 miles or sooner until you get an idea of how much it collects how fast. Before you move the wideband back to the Y see if you're actually getting different readings from the left and right banks. Make sure you're in closed loop before getting the reading to compare with the other side.
My dashhawk does not do that I don't think I should probablly upgrade the software. I've been looking all over for a leak, I'm not getting any smell or puddles of fuel anywhere, how would you go about tracking down a potential leak? I would assume that having the catch can fill up would be no different than not having one at all.... my car has a bit of cam lope so its hard to say if its idling rough or anything, id does shake a bit at idle and I've noticed the advance jumping around from really low like 4 to 12 or 14 trying to smooth out the idle, however I also just reinstalled the tune....
I think they've had that for quite a while. Unless your DashHawk is really old. Can't remember if it comes with certain pids or what. I sort of remember maybe it's always there? Not sure. If you can't smell it? Probably not. Without a catch can you're going to be getting a fairly steady supply of atomized and vaporized oil. Some of which condenses in the manifold. When your catch can fills up you're going to get "spluts" of liquid oil when going over bumps or cornering. Kind of like the difference between a constant mist and tossing a teaspoon full in every now and again. I think that's to be expected. Do you have a boost-a-pump? that cuts off at idle?
?yes, kenne bell, I think it only comes on at WOT or something, I remember the tuner telling me it was getting a little lean uptop......thats when they installed it
UPDATE: I took it to the local tuner today and he discovered that the map sensor on the back of the intake manifold was unplugged! we plugged it in and car is running better now, seems to be idling while in gear normally but in neutral its still idling lean, may just need more time....when driving the car feels completely different, much more sensitive pedal response again, I had forgotten how sensitive it used to be so who knows how long there has been an issue. it still seems to be going lean a little bit while off the gas and moving but it gets its footing back as soon as there is some load on the engine. the couple times I gave it some pedal it got unhappy, wend very rich and felt like it was going to die so I let off, so this brings me back to wondering if the wrong map sensor is in charge or it just needs more time to learn having a map sensor again. I still smelled some fuel after punching it so I'm wondering if there is still a problem or maybe I'm just smelling the extra fuel the car was getting.
You should only be smelling extra fuel if you're standing behind the car. Not running right when you punch it sounds like you should take it back to the tuner (or take it to a new tuner).
he did not do any tuning, just ran some teste, suggested changing the plugs, installing a fuel pressure gauge..... I just found out though that the sensor we plugged back in should not be plugged in, my car runs a GM 2 BAR sensor, I wondering now if thats gone bad as my car is MUCH happier driving around town (not in boost) with it plugged in. PS. anyone know what tool I need to disconnect fuel line from fuel rail, I need to put in miller special tool line "T" so I can installa fuel pressure gauge. thanks
Something doesn't sound right here at all. For starters why has he got you to install a fuel pressure reg. If he was concerned with fuel pressure or leaks could he not have done it there. What did you plug back into where when hooking up MAP sensor. If you are running a GM 2 Bar Map sensor you would have rewired the OEM MAP sensor plug to match up with the GM unit. This also should have still been plugged in so I don't understand what it was he has done. I would personally start with what the car is telling you. Cylinder 1 misfire. Pull the plugs check them, and gaps and ensure they aren't damaged etc. If you are smelling excessive fuel and cylinder one misfire code keeps coming up, could be a chance cylinder one is not firing properly and not burning the fuel. Do a compression test on cylinder 1 to ensure there is no leakage (doing the whole bank wouldn't hurt just to ensure they are all in tip top shape and level across all 4) Last thing are you running larger fuel rails and front cross over. With that sort of power level I surely hope so. The Whipple kits here in Australia saw fuel leaning out @ 460+ rwhp during testing which dissappeared when installed. Just a thought. What exactly has the tuner looked at to try and solve the problem for you.
he didn't do it him self because he's trying to save me $, he's a friend of a good friend. it has stock fuel rails but its also running less boost than what is in my sig, I know it needs aftermarket fuel rails but they were never ordered. where were people seeing leakage coming from exactly? Its just so weird that plugging the OEM map sensor back in is making the car SO happy, I would think that it would freak out with two sensors plugged in. it obviously can not deal with boost because of the OEM map sensor being plugged it but it idles so nice, throttle feels better, its not going lean anymore except when in neutral (this is very strange to me) I know its not fixed but its WAY better, I can actually drive it and it feels normal. he said short term fuel trims were maxed out and there were other random unexplained things going on, map sensor reading were really strange as well.
