You don't have to do the heads, but they are definitely an upgrade over stock. Since you have to pull the engine somewhat apart for the cam anyway, many do heads at the same time to save on installation cost IF you plan on doing heads at a later stage anyway.
JarZ, what is the biggest cam I can run in my jeep? I assume the springs will need to be changed if I want to keep the stock heads for now.
You can put a huge cam in a stock 6.1 but to keep the valves from hitting pistons you need to retard it which kills bottom end for that reason something like an SRT Max is the practicle limit. Normally, I recomend the SRT Max with a 3000 stall converter and the Spartan with no converter. With gearing being what it is in a jeep that may be different but the spartan pulls strong up top so I'd think the same rule would be true.
Stu, let me rephrase my question a little. What could we do as far as getting the most aggressive sounding choppy idle cam in my jeep? Does it need a tight LSA? I want it to sound like a drag car:worthy:
An SRT Max on a 112 would be about as choppy as I'd go. The tighter LSA definately will make it choppier, more so than more duration. You would want a converter with that cam though. I've never tried something like a Spartan on a 110 LSA. I know that would idle pretty mean and may be stronger off the line but it would be a first as I haven't tried it.
Yeah that sounds more along the lines of what I am looking for. Isnt the SRT Max 112 on the video of that blue charger on page 2 here. How come you could run a Spartan on a 110 but not the SRT Max?
An SRT Max on a 110 would have allot of overlap for a stock engine and would be low on cylinder pressre and weak on the bottom end. you would alos have to retard it 4 degrees to get the intake valve to clear the piston which would further hurt torque. Heres another option on cams. I just had some new masters made. 216/218 duration with 0.560/0.560 lift they are slightly faster ramps than the Spartan or SRT Max too. I can also do 216/222 with the same lift. on like a 112-113 LSA that should be a pretty choppy sounding cam and should run hard.
What is the difference in the 216/218 and 216/222? The duration is longer? How does that affect performance? Can I get away with running my stock converter? I think they are a little looser in the jeeps compared to the LX cars.
Yes, you'd have 4 more degs duration (@0.050" lift) on the exhaust from 218 to 222. You basically have a Spartan and an SRT Max with slightly different grinds. Your intake would be the same, so you'd have very similar idle / vacuum characteristics between the 2 IF they were ground on the same LSA. I believe the GC has 3.73 gears right?...you should be able to run the SRT Max on a stock convertor with no issues. If you want something that sounds mean, do what Stu suugested and get a Spartan ground on a 110 LSA...but you'll for sure need a tune.
I just asked Andy at PPP the same question to see what he thought and he said he has run a 230/236 111LSA on stock heads with upgraded valve-springs and it was pretty choppy but very hard to tune. He thinks the Spartan on a 110 LSA would make the jeep fall flat on its face but would run good in a 5.7 Ram. What do you guys think?
I don't think I'd run a spartan on a 110 LSA as it would be tough to tune and probably not run too well up top. Without the converter I'd think a Spartan Max 218/218 on a 114 or an SRT Max on a 115LSA would be a strong performer in the Jeep
Which one will have a more choppy idle Stu? I assume the Spartan Max on a 114? Could I run either of those cams with a tighter LSA? How does the performance change between tight and wide LSA's? example: Spartan Max on a 112 vs. Spartan Max on a 114
With the Hemi if you will have a bear of a time tuning if the idle is very choppy. We can run a SRT Max on a 112 and it's pretty choppy but will probably be slower than it is on a 114 because it will be weaker off the line.
I'll let you know how the SRT Max on a 115 LSA works out...picked up the cam this AM Stu. I agree with Stu, anything tighter then a 112, and you are asking for tuning issues. I'm trying to get my head around why PPP would think what would suck in a Jeep would work in a 5.7 Truck....and what application they ran a 230/236 on a 111LSA with STOCK heads. Had to have been a race application...and perhaps a 3G Hemi swap into an older Mopar with a MSD controller. Not a big cam, but HUGE in an LX IMO.
Hehe your idle video is amazing: http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t225/1fastsedansrt8/?action=view¤t=MOV02524.flv
