Hey all. I was wondering what kind of crank HP our cars can run without having to seriously worry about engine or halfshaft damage? I'm kind of on the fence abut whether to go forced induction on my car or to crack the engine (lookin at HHP stage 2 package). I'm concerned that something like the STS turbo kit would create the kind of power that could cause some kind of damage...Any thoughts would be appreciated!
any forced induction on a non forged engine would be limited to maybe 6 or 7psi...if your going to forge the engine then its a different story are you going to go forged or no?
I'm basically talking about leaving my engine as is if I go forced induction. I'm also not clear on what forging an engine really means. Think you could fill me in on that?
If your going to keep your engine as is, going with the PPP/HHP/SHR/other heads/cam packages would be my personal route....but it really depends on your personal taste. Forging our engines consists of upgrading pistons and rods ect...I am no expert so I will wait for some of the guys who have gone through it. I guess it depends on how much you want to spend also...I would say a forged and supercharged/turbo'ed engine would run what?....$10k? with the install maybe?...thats just a guess but i'd say its pretty close...hte heads/cam/intake would run you probably in the $7k range?.... that would probably vairy greatly depending on where you got it, what deals you got, how much you pay for the install blah blah blah
Fair enough (I am leaning towards HHP package too). Really what I want to know is whether the STS system would be a danger to the car itself with the engine being stock.
That really depends on what PSI it would be pushing....if its more than 7 your pushing your luck lol AH yea....and you have to have a good tune or your screwed haha
Two different questions: 1) What will the engine handle? 2) What will the halfshafts handle? The second question is the easiest. Halfshafts break as a function of too much traction trying to move too much weight - primarily from a stop, or perhaps from 5 mph rolls or less. I'd imagine if you put drag radials on a stock motor, put 1,000 pounds of people in the car, found a sticky spot on the road, and hammered it - you could break a halfshaft. But an empty car, on a typical road, with typical tires, will simply break loose the tires and your halfshafts are safe. I've often said "the cheapest thing to break is traction." Just make sure your tires break loose before the halfshafts do. The first question: Properly tuned - it's hard to blow up these motors. The crank is already forged. The pistons and rods have held up to some holy @#$% levels of abuse in many people's cars. Yes - I'm an example, having peaked out at over 600 ft lbs of torque and 600 HP - at the rear wheels. Didn't break anything, but don't necessarily recommend trying. Throw 6-8psi on your engine, making sure it's tuned very well for air fuel ratio, avoid standing starts on drag radials, and enjoy one heck of a ride!!!!
Yea, I would imagine a bad tune would not help lol. I think the kit runs under 7 PSI to start with so maybe it would be alright... Wow! Thanks for the detailed response JMatt (and thanks to you too Steve ) Alright then! That makes me feel better about the STS kit. I really wanted that, but was afraid it would be too much power so was thinking would go with heads/cam to be safe. I'm not putting D/R's on my car ever, (I don't track it) and pretty much avoid the slow starts as well so my halfshafts should be alright. You're putting down 600 WHP on stock motor?! Congrats man!
Oh thats more than I would try for sure, but more power to you (figuratively of course) for going for it. Any idea where I could find someone with experience tuning our cars with a STS system in the NY area?
I agree with JMatt....if not shoot me a PM and ill see if i can point you in the right direction! :thumb:
Looks like the guys have you covered here. As has been stated the tune is crucial! As is keeping the boost low...5-6 lbs on a S/C or Turbo witha good tune will keep things together on a stock motor. As was also stated the halfshafts are a weak link and if you plan on running D/R's with a Forced induction engine than I would definitely suggest upgrading. Give us a call 877-BMC-RWHP...we are distributers and installers of STS, Vortech, Procharger, and Techco, so we can point you in the right direction
I worrie a lot about my halfshafts because I like going to the track once a week, but if you are not a track guy, then you should be ok.
I would keep boost at 6psi or less on a stock bottom end........at that amount of boost it would be less expensive to do a good cam/head/intake combo......your max power would be a little less but you will wind up with similar or even a little quicker times.And then in the future if you really want it forge the bottom end and add the blower on top of everything else. Remember that 6psi is at max rpm,unless you go with a twin screw blower.
Erik, you know that I highly respect your opinion, but where are you getting that 6 psi number from? I've been running 8 lbs. of boost on a stock bottom end for 4 months now without any issues. I agree with everyone that my motor lives (or dies) by the tune, but with proper tuning I don't see any problems with running more than 6 lbs of boost. There are at least 5 Vortech cars running 8 pounds of boost without any problems.
Where is your boost coming in?How are you injector pulsewidths?How often have you seen the track...and most importantly what times are the vortech cars seeing?If the boost comes up slow and your not constantly beating on it maybe you'll get away with it.....but I wouldn't trust 8psi for very long.Your altitude might be helping as well....if you have altitude there.......at sea level on 8psi your effective compression ratio is 16:1.......I would not be very happy with that on a stock and very brittle Hyperutectic piston with a top ringland just under 5mm.Any detonation at all and you can say goodbye to that ringland.........the guys that lost their motors on the early Diablo release never heard the detonation.....you think you will on boost is you get some...even with a tune bad gas,clogged filter,hicup in the pump......a tired injector from running pulsewidths way to high....even a weakend land......doesn't take much. Aside from that its my opinion.....I'd rather be safe in a shortblock than have to pay for an entire motor if it blows and takes the heads and block with it.
Here is where I make boost. The graph only goes to 6200. I hit 8 psi at 6400 RPMS. I don't know what my injector pulse widths are, but my tuner (same one you use) hasn't had a problem with them. I'm at sea level (2.5 miles from the ocean), so altitude isn't a safety factor either. I agree that detonation is a big issue. But the bigger issue (and part of detonation) is cylinder heat. My aftercooler does a pretty good job of cooling the air charge and the water/meth injection does a great job of keeping everything cool and protecting those thin ring lands. I'm heading to the track on 12/6. I've been working on tuning over the past couple months. A Vortech Jeep ran a low 11 2 weeks ago at California Speedway. I think another factor is the "safety factor." How safe do people want their boosted motors to be? Bulletproof safety leaves power on the table. Maybe my comfort level is smaller than most. Either way, I believe that there are safe and responsible ways to run 8 pounds of boost on a stock bottom end.
