Well, my first real issue has shown it's face on my 426 and I could use some help. My valvetrain has always been noisy but it was fairly generalized and others have had the same noise. I can now hear what sounds like a loose rocker arm, or a clacking that comes and goes coming from the driver's side valvetrain...it is definitely there but not constant. I am guessing it is cyl 3 or 5...it is that definite. I know we have non adjustable rocker assembly so this has me a little worried. Has anyone had a common failure like this before? Failing lifter? One rocker that has eaten it's way into the shaft? I will be taking the valve cover off tomorrow... Any ideas???
It could be as simple as a loose rocker shaft bolt.....they do loosen up if they are not torqued properly.....best thing is to pull the valve cover.No telling what it is till then and worrying about could be's will drive you crazy.
Best thing about your motor, its an Arrington motor, they back up their products 100% Hope its nothing bro, let us know.
but what if the issue lies within the heads dan?????? or would this even be possible??? from his sig he has ppp heads / cam. either way jon, i hope you get things figured out quick!
Well nothing jumped out at me. Can someone give me the torque spec for the rocker shaft bolts? I was really hoping to see SOMETHING. The valve springs all look intact that I can see, I don't see any unusual wear on the valve tips and the rockers all appear centered. What should I look for now? This noise is NOT constant but appears every 5 or 10 seconds and is a definite "clackity" noise...just like a loose rocker nut on an old school chevy or something like that.
Torque spec is 195 inch lbs.I would pull the rockers and just make sure there is no wear on the valve stems and rocker pads.....did you notice any misfire codes?Does it make the noise all the time or only on start up?Could just be oil drain back or a it could be a lifter going south.
The clackity noise is not constant. It comes and goes every 5 or 10 seconds and sounds like it just hammers a bit. No codes. It doesn't seem to be associated with startup. The fact that it is NOT a constant sound makes me think it is a lifter but aside from replacing it/them I don't really know how to diagnose a bad lifter...especially an intermittent problem. I am 99% positive it is one of the two center cylinders...I can almost pinpoint the sound as it is running. I will pull the rocker shafts off and have a look but so far everything looks perfect.
Jon, by chance do you have a K1 crank?? If so, there is a slight chance the oil pump is damaged and your not getting full oil pressure. But that would be the last thing to check. Man, trouble shooting through a computer bites it. After you have inspected the valvetrain and if you find nothing wrong. Contact the engine builder and find out about the crank and if they chamfered the cam/oil pump drive gear.
I have tried. Andy was going to send me some slightly longer exhaust pushrods to make up for the way the cam is ground...smaller base circles. I don't see anything wrong as I micro-examine each valve spring, tip, rocker position, pushrod end. The rocker shaft bolts were all tight. There are no metallic particles whatsoever in the valleys and corners of the head. I did get this Blackstone oil analysis back a few days ago...the guy called me and we talked about it. He said metals were a little high in my motor but still ok. Excuse the crudeness...I just printed screen. I am about ready to take it to my awesome dealer (seriously) for some new lifters on that side...yanking a head off is more than I want to tackle in my garage. I don't recall seeing anyone posting about lifter failure...is this rare if that is indeed what my problem is? Anyone have any lifters laying around they are willing to sell?
I wouldn't get in to the lifter just yet. If you can find out what your base circle was, that'd be a plus for determining a longer push rod. But if not, bump up the push rod lengh .010 - .015 if possible. It's a little bit of a guessing game, but working your way up slowly is the safe way. I just find it odd that it's not consistant, which make me think oil pump. Monitor you oil pressure during both periods and see if that is a indicator of pump failure, swings in pressure.
I do have a K-1 crank. Here is a cut and paste from Tim Combs, formerly of PPP who was in shop when my engine was installed (his reply is first, my question is below): Hi Jon, Although we had no information to do such a thing from Arrington/PPP/K-1 , our tech saw it and machined it to fit properly. So you are OK, I would bet that there are a bunch of guys out there that it wasn’t caught on though. Have a good one Jon!!! Tim Combs Director of Sales and Marketing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Springer, Jon [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 1:18 PM To: Tim Combs Subject: My K-1 crank Heya Tim. I see Steve Aguilar is posting up about his issue with his K-1 crank… http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=164182 Would you be able to confirm that my crank gear was machined before being installed? I know you were at the shop during a lot of the first installs and I just want to set my mind at ease. I would assume all the K-1s that you originally installed were this way. Thanks dude. Jon L. Springer Patrick Draw Plant Cell: 307-870-2807 Landline: 307-382-4562 [email protected] I agree completely. Andy was aware of the issue and brought it up to me a month ago. .008" longer is what I am supposed to be getting...only the exhaust side. What I don't like is that something changed. The noise is something new...and on a static valvetrain, except for the lifters, everything is solid and non-adjustable.
OK, well lets hope that the lap dance I bought him at SEMA hasn't destroyed his memory forever...........hahahha. BTW, that is a funny ass story. But damn would I get blasted if I told it online.
What do you think? Has anyone else seen something like this? There is some contact on all retainers with exh 3 and 5 showing the most. The valve tips do not appear to be worn down to nubs, but I stopped driving the car as soon as I heard the abnormal knocking. The exhaust are worse than the intake. I am not really sure where to go next. Andy is working with me on this and I sent him a bunch of pics... Exh cyl 5 rocker Rockers installed...intake
Yep...you've definitely got contact.I've seen it before but it's usually accompanied by damaged valve stems.....just thinking out loud here but I wounder if the bronze guides have worn allowing the valve stem to move and contact the rocker.We had that problem on the old Gen 1 Hemis due to the crazy valvetrain angles,the GEN III motors aren't much different.
Erik..if I had worn guides should I see blue puffs on startup? I don't think I have seen so much as a cracker fart out of my exhaust. Has you seen tuliping of the valves? That would account for the "taller" retainers.
Yeah,I have seen the tuliping of the valves first hand and that sucks! It was pushing the keepers apart it was so bad. If the guide wear is minimal the valve seal would still do it's job but the guide would still allow the valve to rock over ever so slightly....might be enough and could also be why you don't hear it all the time.
After a few discussions, Andy at PPP compared my pic to another valve train running the same combo...notice the distance from the retainer to the valve tip (mine is left): (edit...man, that one on the right doesn't look so hot but anyway it is mucch higher than mine) Apparently there were some keepers that allowed the retainer to sit higher in relation the the valve. I showed slight marks on all my retainers from contact with the bottom of the rocker arm, some more than others, and I have one of those set of keepers. I can see right now I had really tight clearances on all of my retainers to rocker arms at zero lift...it looked like they were hitting just from the oil filling the gap before I even removed my rocker shafts. Andy sent me the different keepers today so when they arrive I will swap things out, make sure everuything else is ok and see what happens...along with a slightly longer set of exhaust pushrods to make up for my cam grind. I am still wondering where the new intermittent clacking was coming from as I have 7k on this assembly so maybe I have a lifter that is starting to go south or whatever, but I can finally get my mind around where the scuffs were coming from on my retainers. Thanks for the help guys and gals...the calls and PMs help more than you can imagine.
I have no clue but this sure is interesting. The scuff marks go around the retainer. Seems like that means that the retainer rotates during operation. Does the spring rotate relative to the retainer during operation? Seems that the retainer would be sitting just a bit higher where it sits on top of where the spring coil ends. With both those things rotating the high side of the retainer would be different all the time and it would only scuff/clack when the high side gets under the rocker arm. That might make the sound intermittent. Maybe all of them were hitting but the clearance was just a bit tighter on the ones that you could hear noticeably.
