Timing Belt Change interval

I hear a ton of debate on when to change the timing belt on the Neon SRT-4. The manual says 100k miles. But I hear anywhere between 70-90k is better. But when exactly?

I am about to hit 70k in less than 500 miles. My driving conditions are 16 miles each way to work. About 11 of those miles are city driving. The rest is interstate 70+/-. I do indeed get on it once in a while of course. But I am not taking the car over 3k when I drive it regularly.

Also whats recommended on a good tensioner? I see DCR has a billet one which is around the same price. I am also looking into getting a OEM water pump and a GATES timing belt. Also I will probably get all the seals replaced in that area.

Has anyone done the timing belt/waterpump/tensioner/seals on these cars? I personally have never done it but according to Mitchell On Demand it takes 2.6 hours if you have a shop do it. (Just the timing belt) Not sure if I can put myself into doing it and don;t really want a headache. I do have friends that could help me out that have been around that corner before and probably would help.

These cars are NON-interference due to the low compression correct. (Heard this from numerous sources at "the other place"

:thanks: for any and all kinds of info.

 

You actually gone over. It should be done 60-65k range. If you make it to 100k then your lucky. The timing belts have broken on people between 65-100k or have lost teeth. You should check your belt for wear and play.

You will be lowering and raising the motor up and down trying to do this. I helped a friend of mine do the cams, cam gears, timing belt, water pump, accessory belts, oil pump, etc. on my wife's SRT-4.

The stock tensioner is fine. We re-used the one on my wife's car. The one's on our cars are not hydraulic and YOU set the tension. We used an OEM timing belt on her car as well. You start upgrading parts like that when you have some serious power 500+.

Correct these motors are NON-interference.

It takes more then 2.6 hrs to do. All depends on what all is being changed and replaced. More time if you've never done it.

 

Checking the timing belt is a chore in itself on these cars.

I don't know. I just hear the GATES are really good belts. and how much more are they than the OEM ones. I don't think its much. Be nice to have a better quality belt that will last a bit longer. As for the tensioners I ehar only bad things about them failing quickly due to bad bearings etc. They even changed the part numbers on them, maybe due to the fact the original ones were known to be faulty and they revised it.

Special tools>? I hear there is a nice tool that keeps everything still when you are setting the timing. Have to look more into it myself. Probably re-ruse my serp belts since they are pretty much new.

 

I think I will have my shop do it. (I work there and get 25% off of labor) Going to go with the Gates performance belt or should I go with the Mopar? What about tensioner? PTP/DCR/Mopar?

Jeff the service writer said its a good idea to do the thermostat too even though its not in the same area.

Or is that something I could tackle later on?

Quoted at $452.95 with tax.

Add another $30 or so dollars for OEM waterpump. (Generic one was on the ticket)
Add another $108.50 for the PTP tensioner/ $135 for the DCR/ $70 for OEM
2 seals are on the ticket, I am guessing the crank and cam seals. Not sure what brand they use... TCK SEAL KS12711 KS13709. Would it be better to get those from the dealership?
I also get a coolant flush and fill

So that puts me at $600 if I go with the good tensioner and waterpump.
$266 of that being labor.

I am going to call up some local performance shops, might be able to get a better deal for the install.

Oh yeah, if you go ont he ptp website they recommend every 45k!!!
On DCR website they recommend at 30k!?

Is it to scare the SRT-4 owners into getting it done since thats pretty mucht eh average mileage of these cars right now for the most part.

 

Mopar belt hasn't failed us and my wife's S3 SRT-4 is almost close to the 400 mark hp and has over 400 in tq. Same goes for the factory tensioner.

If your going to make some crazy hp I'm guessing 500 or above then yeah go all out with a Gates timing belt and a tensioner like PTP or DCR offers. I just don't see the need for it unless your building the motor and having cams like BC Stage 3 or even Crane 16's/18's.

The water pump is optional. I know of owners that didn't replace it and their at 100k+ with no failures. I opted to replace the one on my wife's car and will probably do the same with my car since your already there when you remove all the parts to do the timing belt. So I say do it, replace it.

The mileage interval on behalf of both vendors/shops might just be a marketing scheme. Its been known for a lot of vehicles that the interval to changing the timing belt and doing overhaul maintenance is at 60k. Its been that way for years.

As for the thermostat. You can do that on your own. No need for someone to charge you labor on that. Its (2) 10mm bolts on the thermostat neck where your Radiator Cap is at. The thermostat is there with a rubber seal. Keep the seal and re-use. Get a 180 degree thermostat from either Napa Part# 153 or Autozone Part# 4208.

 

Stock is 180 degree thremostat right? My shop wanted $106.07 to just replace the thermostat. Labor at $78 with my discount.

Under "Normal" change interval according to Mitchell On-demand for the timing belt is 105k

Under "Severe" its 80k

It really depends ony our driving conditions and howqyou drive the car. If it see's a ton of road racing and drag racing then yeah getting it done early is a good idea. But if its a daily driver and you aren't the "Typical" SRT-4 owner that drives the piss out of it all the time and gives a bad name for the SRT-4 community then yeah 80k should be fine.

As for the Gates timing belt, why not go with the performance Gates belt and spend a bit more for better durability, same with the tensioner? But if its overkill I total understand. I remember reading a few posts on srtforums saying you can go longer with the Gates...

 

180 is not stock, $106!!!! WTF? You can buy the thermostat for about $10 and install it in about 15min.
I had my timing belt chagned when I did the motor at 50k miles. Ill do it again at 100k.
I have the dcr tensinor and Im not real impressed but I bought it so Ill use it.

 

180 degree thermostat does not come stock in our cars. Its more of a "upgrade" for our car as far as the cooling system is concern. $106 to replace a thermostat.... wah?!? The thermostat is only about $10-$12 and it takes about 10-15 min to replace. All you need is a 10mm socket, 3/8 extension and 3/8 ratchet.

You'd be surprise. Timing belts can go at any moment no matter your driving style. I can say though Mitchell on demand is wrong because that hasn't applied with the SRT-4.

There is a guy with an SRT-4 bone stock that managed to get about 100k or so out of his timing belt and this was normal driving. Older guy in his 40's or so. His timing belt snapped. So with that said I'm pretty sure any current owner that has an ounce of mods or not even modded has ragged on their car. There's no such thing as "normal" driving at all times. Although I can see that with someone of elderly age or a mature adult. I don't believe people that say they drive their SRT-4 normal all the time. Especially those that say they shift in the 2k range and rarely get to the 3k range.

As for the Gates belt... obviously it doesn't make a difference on a fully modded DCR Stage 3 with toys SRT-4 that put down 374whp/423wtq on a street tune running race gas because that car which is my wife's is running a the Dodge/Mopar factory belt. So why spend the extra money? Duralibility? Performance? Nah, because at the time its time to change the timing belt again either or will need to be replaced. Belts wear differently... a belt is a belt. They can only take so much and so many conditions. I too have seen Gates racing belts on SRT-4's but those are the fully built ones with thousands upon thousands of money put into them running 10's at the track, some even running the DCR auto trans.

Same goes for the tensioner. We reused it. Didn't buy a new one, didn't buy some "performance" one. A tensioner is just that a tensioner. You should look on how it works as you set the tension, its not a hydraulic one. They will snapped due to brute force and its not the tensioner that goes bad per say its more of the bracket the tensioner is mounted on will snapped where the bolt holds the bracket in place. If you claim you drive your SRT-4 "normal" then I don't see why such an upgrade is needed especially if plan to stick with the stock turbo or a modified one only making in the 300-350 range.

Again my wife's car has cams and whole nine, all thats left for it is water/meth injection. Everything else has been done, from removal of the balance shafts to as far as everything being ported. Anything major would be a engine/tranny overhaul.

At the end of the day its your car and its up to you if you really want to go with glorified parts then you might as well go with a DCR oil pump while your at it :grin:.

 

Thank you for the very through response.

I called up a bunch of places for labor quotes and the shop I work at I get 25% off of labor and the main tech there is awesome.

That being said I will have them order:

The Mopar timing belt

I know you guys reused your tensioner and are fine, but I want a new one. Mopar sounds good, but what about a generic one at oreillys that is a bit cheaper?

Do the crank and cam seals really need to be replaced? I talked to a shop and they said that those seals don't get much play in them at all and last a really long time. Plus if they did those seals I would need a new valve cover gasket correct since they have to take it off?

Mopar water pump

What about a new idler pulley?
Aftermarket cam gears or cams?

Just brainstorming on what else I could have them replace that is all in there.

 

I would go with the Mopar tensioner. I only trust dealer parts or aftermarket with these cars.

You don't need to replace the crank or cam seals.

Our valve gaskets are reusuable. I've resused mine 2 times. As long as they don't get stretched, cut, or any sort of damage they can be reused. The valve cover bolts only torque down so far down, there's a base on the bolt as to where they stop.

Idler pulley you can also reuse. We reused my wife's. If there's no sign of wear/play and no noise then its fine.

If your going to do aftermarket cams and cam gears... a good alternative is:
Crane 12's or 14's with Fidanza Cam Gears

Only downside with the Fidanza is you have to cut your upper timing belt cover for the cover to fit back on with those cam gears. We went with Crane 14's with Fidanza Cam Gears on my wife's car.

Info on the cams can be found here:
http://www.modernperformance.com/product_info.php?cPath=174_351_355&products_id=1234

If you really looking into aftermarket cams and gears I recommend you get them since your doing the timing belt, water pump, etc. Kill two birds with one stone instead of having to go back later on and doing the cams and set the timing and what not all over again.

 

I was never a fan of Fidanza Cam Gears, I went with Unorthodox, and yes they are a lot more expensive. I have heard Fidanza fixed their problems with the gears though.

 

The Unorthodox Racing ones fit within the timing cover without having to hack it. They do carry a hefty price that's why I opted to go with the Fidanza's on my wife's SRT-4. They have fixed the issue.

Here's what I mean about the hacking inorder to keep the upper timing belt cover with the Fidanza cam gears. This is what I did on my wife's SRT-4:

 

My friend is trying to tell me that I do not need it done. He said if the car idles fine and if its not leaking from the cover then there are no worries.

I still feel it would be a good time to get it done since I just rolled over 70k.

I don't think I want to spend the money on cams and cam gears.

 

That is a poor concept on your friends behalf.

Idling fine, yeah it will idle fine until bam teeth get shredded off (which has happened to some around 60k and when it reaches the crankshaft pulley the car shuts off) or the belt breaks. You don't want to wait till it breaks as it will break at the worse of times.

As for fluids not leaking another poor conception. You don't want to wait until fluid is leaking as it will leak on other components and damage some or cause more problems.

At 82k or so is when we did my wife's timing belt and on her timing belt cover it showed belt deposits. Black dusty material that shows timing belt wear.

You can check timing belt wear and tension by removing the upper timing belt cover.

 

Timing belt? This is the same timing belt that drives your cam shaft? That thing that makes the valves go down when the pistons aren't there? If it's that belt, then having your valves go down when the pistons are there is usually very bad.

If it idles bad because of the timing belt that would mean that it's already slipped a notch or two? and you can expect catastrophic failure at any moment? That's one of the things I wouldn't mind changing a little early.

 

Yep, Id just change it and quite thinking about it. I had mine get hit by the harmonic balancer and it jumped a few teeth, which = about $1800 of damage on a motor that had only 700 miles on it.

 

the only time you need to upgrade to billet tensioner is when you go bigger cams than say crane 16s or bc stage 3s. other than that use the stock tensioner

 

Thank you for all the help on helping me make my decision. Well let you know how the car feels afterwards. Anything I should check for on my scan gauge now and see the difference afterwards? (stupid question I know) lol

Car is going into the shop Tuesday. Jeff the service writer is going to order all the parts today and will get them in on Monday. Mopar tensioner, Mopar waterpump, Mopar timing belt. If the crank or cam seals are leaking those will be replaced too. I am going to have him check out the idler pulley too. The tech who is working on the car is badass. Being working on cars for 30+ years. so I know a good job will be done.

 

Well.. got my car back from the shop. Tech said the timing belt looked great. I took most of all the old parts back. Probably could of went another 10-20k on it... Oh well, its all said and done.

Vid of my timing belt:
http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b146/r1c0chet/?action=view&current=azer100.flv

Price:


They had to dock on another $60 in labor due to my solid tranny mount. He couldn't move the motor up because of that. He then had to pry it out because it was stuck. I trust him. The crank and cam seals looked fine.

Edit:

Whats up with the quicktime logo with the question mark in it. I had the url I don't want it to be playing...

 

Man thats expensive! Im glad I got a buddy to do most of my work for me! His regular labor rate is $60/hour.