What exactly is a vendors Responsabilty on parts??

Example..A customer buys a set of heads.Runs them about 5 months
and a spring lets go.This action wipes out the whole motor.Now the
customer is asking to fix the heads only.The spring breaking happened
at 45 mph.This spring brand has been known to break about 5-6 motors already.This was installed by the vendors choice of installers..Opinions and questions welcomed..

 

the vendor should be responsible for the spring breaking and the damage it caused. they can plead it was installed correctly, though if the install was done at a vendor approved shop, there would be zero responsibility on the customer.

 

On "race" type parts, there is no warranty expressed nor implied. BUT, if a vendor wishs to impact the hi-po market with full force, and not build parts for brand X until the Brand X faithfull figure the vendor is fullashit, then a handshake warranty should be the shop rule. Common part failures should be treated as a defect and replaced. DO NOT expect labor, related parts, nor down time reimbursement.

These optional parts you install/have installed are not factory stock and do not carry the same weight. You add these aftermarket parts for performance not designed by the factory....at your peril.

 

Hmmm.....

Do you want the legal answer?

 

If they placed poor quality parts on it yes. In this case if you put in a cam that pushes the springs too hard no. It all depends on the detail of the situation. I would suggest contacting the vendor and letting them know the issue see what they are willing to do. If it is not friendly and your nose is clean then attack mode kicks in.

 

Just looking for the stand up vendor answer lol..I know the legal
answer..

 

Yes I would like the legal answer. I fear the same thing and although the cashola is there for my heads and cam...with recent discussions over spring failure and retainer issues not to mention that even upgraded springs are having problems...I am continually contemplating my desire for more power vs. reliabilty.

 

I agree,It doesnt or shouldnt carry the same weight..But a faulty spring??
When a spring lets go it becaomes a domino effect.This action wiped out
a motor,including injector,intake manifold and the driver side head.The
customer would be asking to just refurbish the heads.Nothing else.As
a vendor I would do the right thing and fix the persons heads,Knowing he forked out alot of coin on a new long block..

 

I'd be pissed but wouldn't know what to do at that point. Seems that if it was a mistake and the vendor had improper springs for the cam they suggested that they should make things right. For eg, a vendor says, yeah the stock springs or the manley's can handle this cam no problem and then one busts...what to do? Especially if you asked, "Should I upgrade to the stronger springs"...just a hypothetical but a question I have been asking.

 

When a part fails, the damage it causes to everything else is called "consequential damages." Generally excluded in warranty language.

Installation costs - generally excluded in warranty language.

However, it's possible you have no warranty language anywhere (likely?).
Which sounds bad - but that means there's no disclaimers of warranty either.

So maybe you have a warranty of fitness for a purpose. Part fails, causes damage, you collect.

Reality? How you gonna collect? Small claims lawsuit - likely filed in state where vendor has home office?

So unfortunately, unless vendor steps up to the plate and decides the customer's request seems reasonable, the economic reality is that the customer is out of luck.

See: uniform commercial code (U.C.C.) in your state.

 

Just an FYI.The heads came assembled from the Vendor,along with a cam
that was purchased.I do not think it was a case of wrong springs,but faulty springs..or 1 spring for that matter

 

CRAP! Which vendor? lol...j/k

 

Vendor should DEFINITELY helpout in the situation stated. No questions. That is.....if they care about their customers.
Chase

 

The heads were done by an approved installer..Even if it was WOT in first gear our rides have a rev limiter.Car was tuned on a dyno with
great results A/F etc etc,, As far as how the car was driven?I guess it would be driven like any of us would with a decent HP car..lol.But I assure you it was not beat on.The owner is not a child..Not that means munch..lol but i think you get the point..

 

IMO, unless a warranty is stated, it's all part of the modding game. It takes money to be fast, and you aren't fast unless you are breaking parts. Suck it up, be a man, make it faster the next time, or be like me and keep it stock because you can't afford to play. My buddy owned a machine shop and saw this crap all the time. Someone runs a bunch of nitrous through an engine and a bearing fails and they try to say it shouldn't have happened, it's the machinists fault, they should replace it. Yeah, it's just an example, but the simple fact of the matter is man up and eat it, if they help, count it as a blessing and a favor, if they don't, shit happens. If it were me I would send to a spring, since that's what failed.

 

read the above.

what most people don't seem to grasp is that there is no warranty on race parts. period. if the vendor decides to help you out (and yes i do mean help you out, as legally they have no responsibility to do so) then they are a stand up vendor. most will not though. remember that as a company it's their job to make money. the debate for them then becomes basically what the impact will be if they don't help you. i'm sorry to say but if you're a no one in the car community then they really don't care as it's not going to affect their sales. if you're a person that a lot of people know and are active in the car community, then they are more willing to help you out. it sucks but that's the way that it is. cost vs. benefit all the way.

whlile the vendor basically has no legal requirements to help you out, it would be a sound business practice to simply replace the head for you. if it's known that the springs are bad and are prone to failure then yes, they should do something. the question also is though 5 or 6 have failed out of how many? a small failure rate is to be expected, but if that's out of like 20 heads well then that's a serious problem.

i would not expect to get replacement of the motor out of them, nor time/labor costs associated with replacement of anything. if they replace the head consider yourself lucky and move on. yes it sucks, but that's life. you have to pay to play. and sometimes it kicks you in the ass.

 

In good faith, the vendor should try and assist in some way.

Now from a legal standpoint, your shit outtta luck.

I bought a $1800 set of heads once that had bad valve guides from the factory. After installing these heads, my vehicle smoked worse than a freight train. I called the maker of the heads and they were aware of the problem but thought they had caught all the affected heads. They would not replace the heads for me, all they did was mail me new guides. It was on mine dime to have the machine work done and guides replaced, not to mention my labor and cost of gaskets and such.

Are these the same heads that failed on the HOP head comparision threads ?

 

This is more an observation than an opinion. It seems very common in this business that vendors are very impromptu "startup" companies. Some gear head or collection of gear heads figures "heh, we could start a business doing/selling this". Very often it seems they have little to no funding when the initial startup costs are quite high. Having a mold made for wheels for example. Most are competent in what they do or deal with but don't have a clue in financial/business matters or dealing with the public.

At the same time there is no allowance made for "insurance" to cover anything that doesn't go right. Basically you keep your fingers crossed and hope to make it over the hump to where you could cover unfortunate incidents. Many are middlemen between a manufacturer and customers. Some have value added with advice and tuning skills/experience for example. Almost all are in a very low volume, low profit margin situation. I'm sure most have the best of intentions but any unexpected large incidents (maybe not even related to the business) can be significant if not catastrophic. There isn't any certification or million dollar escrow account to cover claims.

It's a huge jump from a hobby where you're wildly successful and a business where you're dealing with the public. Ok, I have the garage, I have the tools, I have the experience and skill, I love doing this, and everybody tells me they would pay more than I can imagine for my services. So now I'm dealing with the general public who are a very different demographic. Who would have thought that I suck at the front office stuff, and it's intefering with actually providing the service, and hiring a "PR" person is critical?

On the flip side, the customers see a store front, products and services just like everything else they see on the internet. Many are not fully aware that it's not like going to the dealer to buy aftermarket accessories. Many (most?) don't even consider something like added performance is not free. Not the dollar cost, but that it's a tradeoff in reliability and longevity. Many of them are in a similar situation as the startup vendor on the other side. It's their only daily driver which they can barely make the payments on so if it blows up it's significant.

So there's a bit of an unspoken clash there. A vendor is not going to say "I'll sell you this. I honestly believe it's going to work but I can't bet my life on it because I didn't have millions and years to invest in testing. If it fails it might be catastrophic. Even if it doesn't fail, you will reduce your duty cycle by this much percent. If it fails large there is no way I will or can cover any significant portion of it." The customer doesn't say "I have no clue exactly what the implications of this are. I have not thought through the ramifications of something going wrong. I cannot, or am not willing, to accept the risk of any significant problem that may occur. If you ask me now I'll tell you fine and that I want to go ahead with it. If something happens down the road I'm going to turn desperate and do everything in my power to have you cover it. Even if it might not be related, coincidental, or I just don't understand I'm still going to hold you responsible". Not many (any?) of these deals are accompanied with a clear agreement on exactly who will be responsible for what in cases of failure. Maybe it's because both sides really don't want to think about that?

It's a tough situation. If all the vendors were completely covered and it was like buying from Mopar we wouldn't have anything. If the vendors only sold and dealt with those customers fully aware and certified willing and capable of accepting the risks we wouldn't have anything.

From a customer perspective I think you should assume that if there is no warranty accompanying the product or service then there is none. I think if I went into business as a vendor in some of the above situations I might consider a warranty along the lines of "If something happens, and you choose to have me rectify it, I will do it at my cost for parts and labor and you will be prioritized the same as any other customer". I don't kow...

just some ruminations.

 

To somewhat solidify this thought and make it a little more realy, look at the modifications you can buy from Mopar and the modifications you can get from the little guy. Mopar parts are very tame in comparison, they don't really push the envelope like other parts you can get, and with good reason. The more you push, the more opportunity for something to go wrong.

 

1FST4DR: Unfortunately, I know exactly what you are talking about. I recently had to cancel my CMR date with Diablo and pull my heads to check which springs were installed b/c we were not positive and wanted some re-assurance BEFORE blowing my engine. I lucked out and have good springs, but would not have known without pulling the heads, so now I at least I have peace of mind. Now the tough part is that if there were 1 or 2 failures out there, I would say you are SOL. But there are at least 6 that I know of where the springs have failed causing the worst case scenario. The most recent being a 426 coming to stop at about 40mph - not even under load. I would like to think the vendor would step up, but would also have to expect the Valve maker themselves to step up too - and that just ain't gonna happen.