Cylinder Head Shootout

You also didn't have the balls to admit who you are. SRT8OC has no "Hemiguy." lxforums has no "Hemiguy." There's no other posts here from "Hemiguy."

Yet out of the entire internet universe, you found this thread, knew enough about the vendors to make your comments, and posted in this thread only. Seven times.

You might have called it.

But I just called you out.

 

The last place I would look for information on which set of 5.7 Performance Heads to purchase would be this bias, one-sided, so called "Head Comparo".

I think I've been clear and to the point.

To each thier own.

John

 

Back on topic: Where are the DYNO SHEETS?

 

Of course, in the entire internet universe, this is where you found yourself for 8 of 8 posts? LMAO. What a phony "John" from California....with the Virginia IP Address.

 

Its BBH :scare:

 

lmao...hmm..who do we know in by Virginia Beach, VA? lol..no lynch mob...

I'm sure they'll be posting the sheets and further elaboration shortly.

 

JMatt, Let it go. :chair: Right or wrong this guy has his opinion and you are not gonna change it. fftopic: Can we get back on topic?

 

LOL - you're so lucky your IP adress isn't in Virginia Beach, VA. LMAO

I agree though - back on topic:

Where's those dyno sheets? Better yet - where's the raw dyno files?

 

bump.

 

LOL!! 2 minutes for a bump? A bit impatient, eh? :tooth:

 

Im stuck in a hippy lecture class. What else am I supposed to do other than hit "new posts" and make stupid comments :flipout:

 

Just for the record, I don't for a second believe that HOP rigged the test. HOP doesn't really have any motivation to rig this test since they are an independent shop and don't have any affiliation with any of the cyl head vendors. Theres just not any motivation for him to do so. Not to mention that Josh isn't the kind of guy that would do that. I applaud Josh and Trojan for using their time and resources to try and give our Hemi community a no BS comparison. I know that they both put allot of time into this that probablly cost them a decent ammount of money too. That being said, the way it was done and it's not really Josh's fault, just the circumstances, but in my opinion left allot of speculation regarding the validity of the results. I feel this way because from what I can tell my heads were the only ones that were run without the benifit of tuning. At this point I'm not sure if they are using the big numbers that were run a while back before the Rumble in the Desert for the PPP heads or the ones that were achieved at the beginning of the test as a basline which were quite a bit lower, possibly lower, due to the dammaged valves but something else could be contributing too, hard to say. Next question, were the retainers that were hitting the rockers with my heads holding the rocker off the valve tips slightly at RPM, therefore effecting the lash and the actual valve lift with our heads? Possibly. Could the contact be causing Knock retard? maybe? probablly not but it's possible. To be honest, I'm really not sure what to make out of the test. I'm sure everyone will draw their own opinion.

Another point for consideration, since the HHP heads flowed less than the MP heads but made more power does that mean flow bench numbers really aren't the sure fire indicators of horespower potiental that many think they are? Could be. I for one don't think flow numbers are completely meaningless but thats about all I can say about them. Since they are good for checking consistiency from port to port on the same head. Particlurarly with hand ported heads. But It does bring up the question Regarding the assumption that was made that since all the heads had reasonablly close flow numbers the optimum tunes woud not change.

 

I am also a new member here.
This head shootout has been posted at dodge talk world The Hemi forum,The hemi club,Dodge truck world,etc,etc.
So there are people like myself who are interested in getting a stroker motor from 1 of your vendors.
But i like others see the test as flawed.
HOP runs PPP heads on there stroker motors??????.
With sharadon,gsm and a lot of other head vendors why were they not asked to participate also.????
Why was PPP the head that received the custom tuning,???
Why was there no custom tuning for all the heads.
Peak numbers mean nothing.
I would say time constrates but they have taken 4 moths to do this test,so thats not the case.
Why was the dyno not done with srt-8 staff on hand to validate the testing.
Put a set of the heads with the lowest numbers,and custom tune those heads,have a independent srt staff person there to validate the numbers.
If the numbers are the same,we can assume the test was done with fairness to all parties.
There are a lot of people looking into these tests,some of us have questions about the test,we are not trying to sabatoge the test,we just want it to be fair to all parties.
Right now that does not appear to be the case.
I can assure you there are no PPP fans complaining about the test,but they are sure supporting the fairness of it.

1 other question for HOP.
Do any of the heads have hand blended work done to them.
Has anyone even seen these heads beside HOP.
Please listen to our concerns,as they are valid.
Surely you the owners of this site should have someone on hand to verify these tests are acurrate and fair.

 

Thank God this is back on topic...

The only item I find "somewhat" perplexing with this particular style of testing, was the use of the exact same camshaft timing events for each of the cylinder heads in question. I know there is only so much time and money to work with, but I have found even subtle changes in camshaft parameters effect the average power produced.

Who's to say that a smaller duration, higher lift camshaft, with different timing events, wouldn't haved helped the Mopar head's average power results. Maybe more lobe area on the intake size would have also helped another brand tested. There are many ways to take advantage of each of these head's strong points and extract more power.

From my experience, the final power numbers we extracted from two different series of CNC ported HEMI heads, improved noticably when the camshaft was changed slightly. What we surmised was that both of these heads truly required different timing events to get the max out of this identically prepped mule combination. Speaks volumes for working long hours with no sleep.

carry on...:headspin:

 

Ed, I agree that small changes (camshaft/timing etc) can make signifigant power gains on different heads. That aside I would have liked to see a complete CMR tune done for each head not just WOT adjustments. This may have added no more than 10 hours total to the test.

I do give HOP credit for taking the time and money to conduct this regardless.

 

Oh my gawd. Enough of this crap already. With all this negativity, claims, pointing fingers, etc... Who do you think is going to pay the price of that? HoP, nope - I don't think so. We will. We being the public that wants to purchase these products. Why? Because after this thread, what vendor in their right mind is going to want to ever do a comparison again against other vendors products? None. This really sucks. HoP went out of their way (I don't even really know who they are) to do this testing and share their results. That is all. They never said, "oh, by the way - you should purchase the heads from whomever we say is #1." I for one believe they conducted the test to the best of their abilities. If some vendor didn't want to send them a set of heads to test, that's not HoP's fault. If you believe the results are flawed or whatever, that's fine - we are all adults (supposedly). You can buy whatever product you want. You don't have to go with the results of this test. Why not just thank them for putting it out there? If I had ABC co's heads and XYZ finished first, that really doesn't give me the right to be angry with the test results. Every car is different and the circumstances are always different. At least someone was willing to put up some time and effort for a comparison test. Not that this will ever happen again. And like I already said, we - the consumer, lose.

 

Mr. 392 ,I am also a new member here.
This head shootout has been posted at dodge talk world The Hemi forum,The hemi club,Dodge truck world,etc,etc.

Wow! Its friggin everywhere!

So there are people like myself who are interested in getting a stroker motor from 1 of your vendors.
But i like others see the test as flawed.
HOP runs PPP heads on there stroker motors??????.

Not true, HoP built 1 stroker that started with FRI heads and ended up with PPP heads. The 4 other Strokers being built right now did not get
there heads decided on tell this week because of the shootout.

With sharadon,gsm and a lot of other head vendors why were they not asked to participate also.????

GSM was asked but were not interested, Sharadon was never contacted. We were testing the most widely used brands.
PPP/HHP/Mopar?Stu's.
Why was PPP the head that received the custom tuning,???

PPP heads were CMR tuned from 2 months before the shootout.

Why was there no custom tuning for all the heads.

1 set had the rockers hitting the retainers. No sense in tuning those, The other 3 sets had WOT tweeks done.

Peak numbers mean nothing.

True, you'll see the graphs. There quite telling.

I would say time constrates but they have taken 4 moths to do this test,so thats not the case.

True. but keep in mind we did the labor for free, Paid for all the oil, coolant, And Like I said above we were never gonna test every frigging head out there. Just the most commonly used ones.

Why was the dyno not done with srt-8 staff on hand to validate the testing.

Whos that? srt-8 staff? Again keep in mind HoP has no agenda. What could we possible gain from a bogus test. We accomplished our goals and have first hand experience with each vendor and there parts. So while all the vendors got to see how they compared, HoP got to see everything and can now safely recommend a head to a customer and know excatly what they will be getting.
Put a set of the heads with the lowest numbers,and custom tune those heads,have a independent srt staff person there to validate the numbers.

See above.
If the numbers are the same,we can assume the test was done with fairness to all parties.
There are a lot of people looking into these tests,some of us have questions about the test,we are not trying to sabatoge the test,we just want it to be fair to all parties.
Right now that does not appear to be the case.

Not true, but anymeans, No Agenda here just wanted to learn for ourselves first hand.
I can assure you there are no PPP fans complaining about the test,but they are sure supporting the fairness of it.

1 other question for HOP.
Do any of the heads have hand blended work done to them.

Yes.
Has anyone even seen these heads beside HOP.

Each vendor nows what they sent and all the heads were photographed by FSC magazine.

Please listen to our concerns,as they are valid.

Absolutly.
Surely you the owners of this site should have someone on hand to verify these tests are acurrate and fair.

Not sure about that one bud!

 

How about this: Why doesn't everyone quit complaining about the fallability of these tests until they step up and conduct better tests on their own. At least HoP stood up to the task and did their best.

Can you do better? Then do it. Don't just critisize this test.

 

I think the fault lies with you guys.
You have supporting vendors wanting to showcase there products,you should have controll or at least some input as to how the test should be run.
This is my last post in your forums,you guys should be in control of tests like this,so that impatiality is confirmed.
I feel for the vendors who gave there heads in good faith.

 

I don't think that is the point. Some of us are trying to discuss/debate the result (isnt that why this is a forum?) without being demeaning to HOP/Trojan. In fact I have continually given them credit for spending the time and money. If we don't want questions or dissenting opinions here than lock the thread as an posted info only topic with no replys.