Eibach Pro Street S Coil Overs vs. KWV1's!!!!!

So I'd be looking at the Tein's due to the minimum drop. What do you guys think about the spring rates? Seems Tein's are pretty different from KW and Eibach.

KW front:500 rear:855
Eibach front:502 rear:857
Tein front:670 rear:783

 

What that means, Dave, is that the Tein system is stiffer.

Too stiff for daily driving or a road trip? I'm just not sure. I would be interested in seeing what the stock spring rates are and that would give you a basis for determining percent increases in stiffness.

I know I get large percent increases in stiffness when my wife crawls into bed. hehehehe..

 

Yea, I figured that. They only went with ~100 difference between front and rear where the other two have about 350. What do those spring rates mean? I assume they're variable/progressive. How do they measure them? max compression or what.

 

I sent a PM to MightNoid over at LX to see if he will come over and give us some views on the Tein's. He has been running Teins for almost a year now.

 

That would be great! Now that you mention it I sort of remember that. Haha, I think last I saw he was going to cut holes in the tops of his strut tower covers for the motors to stick up though.

Another thing. I've got 53/47 weight distribution. Seems to be about the same difference in spring difference with the Teins - 46/54 (although I'm confused why the spring rate for the front is less than the rear when the weight is distributed the other way around...)

 

The coils (fancy word for springs) sort of work against the shocks as the coils smooth shock reaction as they carry the weight.
Maybe Tein feels that it is better to have a little more "shock response to coil response" relating to weight transfer and/or road changes?

Remember drag racing shocks? .... They are usually rated around 90/10 up front and 50/50 in the rear.
This means the front shock has only 10% resistance going up and then slow to come down. On launch this causes the front to rise easy and stay up there longer keeeping the weight shifter longer to the rear tires.

 

But that's mainly damper and rebound (resistance to rate of compression and resistance to rate of extension). And I can see the interdependency between the valving/shock rates and the coil rates. ... but I was thinking that generally the spring rate would correlate to the weight. I mean the car has to compress the springs when sitting still. If it doesn't then you're sitting towards the top of your spring travel. So maybe you have progressive rate springs. Hit some bumps, roll into a corner the spring compresses to a higher rate area and the rebound dampening of the shock holds it in that area... I wish I had just a little clue on the physics and design of a spring and shock system. Got any pointers to a tutorial with pictures (I need pictures)? At first thought I was just expecting the spring rates to be higher for the front since there's more weight there. And the DELTA between KW spring rates front to back is much greater than the delta between Tein spring rates front to back.

and where is Noid already?

 

Ask and ye shall recieve.....

What is a spring rate?
"Spring Rate is defined as the amount of force required to deflect a spring a certain distance. It is typically expressed in lbs/inch. Thus a spring rate of 320 lbs/inch describes a spring that will deflect one inch when 320 lbs of force is applied. Other common units are N/mm and Kg/mm. N(ewton) being the proper metric representation of force and Kg the common but technically incorrect metric units. Rates are converted as 1Kg/mm = 56 lb/in. and 1Kg/mm = 9.86 N/mm."

Simple....lol....
http://www.meineke.com/stuff_about_cars/how_work_suspension.asp

More complex and interesting.....but drag racing related not so much road racing
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpspringrate/spring_rate_equation.php

http://www.pagedezigner.com/bluecoil/rate2.htm

Also check links at bottom of page at this link.
http://www.pagedezigner.com/bluecoil/rate.htm

And also VERY interesting....
http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/info/coilovers.htm

And the maybe best for last....in relation to sways also :
Found here with more good info see post about 1/2 way down page "6:58 AM 1/10/2008" :
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2194619&postid=31863673
"With the soft front springs, big front sway bars, and additional rebound the front end is now doing its part. Big rear springs pitch in to keep the rear spoiler up in the wind for more exit grip and forward bite. Added right rear spring rate holds up the right rear corner helping to keep the left front low promoting more air flow over the body for more overall down force. The big bar soft spring set up gets the front and rear to work together for maximum aero balance and grip."

 

OK I got a call over...LOL

Yes I have had the Tein full system for 1 year and guess what... I STILL LOVE IT!

As for driving it every day on the streets and with about 16K miles with the system and 37K miles on the car, it may be a just a tad bit stiff but that is alright to me! Also the EDFC is a MUST!! I still use that thing about 4 times a week.

Here is a link over to the other place to see pictures and remarks about the system.
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=57639&highlight=tein

I would still recommond it to everyone with a LX!

I still haven't been in a car with KW 1 or 2 but I will let anyone take my car for a ride at anytime... so if you are coming to Spring Fling in March... look for me and just ask for the keys... cause I will be to drunk to take you for a ride...

 

Quick,
This is a nice read....
Here is the complete post found about 1/2 way down page "6:58 AM 1/10/2008" at:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2194619&postid=31863673

"the biggest benefit is getting the nose down on the ground. Air that gets under the car creates lift which is just about always bad. Getting the nose down creates more airflow over the entire body creating more down force literally pushing the entire car into the track promoting more corner grip. While the front springs are softer, the big sway bars are adding a large amount of overall spring rate to the car. As you go up in bar diameter the rates increase exponentially.

Since the soft front springs let the nose settle down to the pavement we then need to keep the body position low throughout the turn. A big sway bar is utilized to resist roll and it adds spring rate as the car enters the turn. We are trading roll rate from the front springs and moving that work to the sway bar. We are also adding overall spring rate and taking advantage of the aero grip created by modern day body designs. The benefit of the big bar is that it helps to hold the left front down as you roll through the turn and on acceleration. With the sway bar holding the nose piece low throughout the turn more air flows over the entire body surface creating additional down force and grip. The car being held down low allows for less overall side travel through the turn, hopefully resulting in more overall stability and consistency. With the suspension linkages traveling less after corner entry, the dynamic changes are controlled and the car becomes more predicable throughout the turn. Minimizing travel in the center of the turn is a big piece of the new package and the added bar rate enhances driver confidence. In addition, the center of gravity is lower in time with when the corner loading is at its maximum point. The big bar creates a quicker responding car that feels more stable due to the elimination of nosing over on the RF.

Controlling the body angles in the turns helps to create consistency. You can imagine that if the nose piece were low on entry and then lifted on exit that you are introducing variables resulting from the continually changing body position. Constantly changing linkage angle changes have an affect on the handling as well. Lift at the nose and squatting in the rear reduce down force at a varying rate throughout the turn. Nose raise creates additional front lift and rear squat moves the spoiler out of the air for less rear down force. With traditional set ups, the front aero lift and the rear spoiler moving down occur at the worst possible times. Obviously more rear spoiler on corner exit would be good for forward bite and a lower nose piece throughout the turn is going to create more speed. These two gains are included in the Big Bar Soft Set Up. A more constant body position allows the driver to chase the car less as the aero change throughout the corner is more consistent.

With the soft front springs, big front sway bars, and additional rebound the front end is now doing its part. Big rear springs pitch in to keep the rear spoiler up in the wind for more exit grip and forward bite. Added right rear spring rate holds up the right rear corner helping to keep the left front low promoting more air flow over the body for more overall down force. The big bar soft spring set up gets the front and rear to work together for maximum aero balance and grip."

 

Thanks a lot for coming over and letting us know....

 

Awesome... So basically it sounds like you want a light of a spring rate as possible for the fastest reaction providing you have enough travel to eliminate coil bind within the travel of the shock. Then you can adjust the dampening with the shock.

Now we just need everybody to measure their total shock and spring travel and the shock compression at ride height. Noid? MOMO! get out there and measure Rick's suspension. :laugh:

Sounds like the Teins might be a better balance for normal twisties although maybe on the stiff side and the KWs better for really high speed track driving...

 

Remember the thread here at Baseline is talking mostly about drag racing setups...
http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/info/coilovers.htm

 

Noid? You still here? Didn't Tein do the R&D using your car? Any insight as to why they picked spring rates that are quite different from those chosen by KW and Eibach? Especially the difference between the front and back?

 

I just ordered a true set of coilovers from the jman.

C.

 

Are these coilovers setup for road racing or specifically a "launch" type of setup?

 

I think you set them up like you want?

http://www.srtconnection.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263&highlight=JMatt+coilovers

 

Excellent question. I got two different sets of springs. One for most of the time and another for drag racing.

C.