psi chick your statement as far as they don't flow that much better then stock is FALSE. Infact it does flow much better then stock and provides cooler temps. If you take the stock intercooler and put it next to a DF you will see the difference greatly. The DF is thicker has more rows and is more efficient. More gains can be seen running a direct fit intercooler vs running a stock intercooler. When I was on stock intercooler after my first run my intercooler would heatsoak and I felt loss of power and it showed when I ran people more then one time. When I installed the ED direct fit I used to have there was no more heatsoak what-so-ever and flowed a lot better then the stock intercooler. Since when are stock intercoolers a good unit? If they heatsoak with a stock turbo then they aren't good at all. If they heatsoak on a bone stock SRT-4 then they aren't good at all. Heatsoaking is bad period and this results in loss of performance so the stock intercooler in reality is garbage. The thickness is about as thick as a radiator of a small compact car. They are not efficient enough for these cars unmodded or modded period. Some run an intercooler sprayer on the stock unit just to keep the temps down and for it not to heatsoak. So $3xx+ for a intercooler sprayer to run on a stock intercooler is a joke. There's plenty of people running s3 setups on direct fit intercoolers including one here in town. He's actually running s3 with toys, some other bolt-ons and a AGP Direct Fit intercooler. Some big intercoolers are an over kill for most setups people run on their SRT-4's.
Where do you get $3xx for an intercooler sprayer? The direct fit fmic's do cool better than stock, but nowhere near as good as large fmic's, there's really no argument around that. The point is, if you want 400hp, you ought to invest in a large fmic. The stocker is a pretty decent unit up to Stage 2, but if you're going for Stage 3 then you definitely want an upgrade, and perhaps a direct fit is fine, but if you are taking Stage 3 up to 400whp, then you should spend the extra bucks and get a large fmic. Don't cheap out when it comes to these things, you'll always wind up regretting it later... like when the guy with S3 and a large fmic pulls up next to you. :happy: *edit* Oh nevermind, I thought you were the OP. To the OP, go with the large fmic! =] To whitefwdsm, I've got the ED Beast on my S3 ride too.
True but a direct fit with W/I is still going to have better gains than a bfmic plus it will survive a front end collision. :deshade:
Uhm, a front end collision will pretty much ruin any FMIC, but a large fmic with meth injection will be better than a direct fit with meth injection. I know 2 other SRT guys with large fmic and meth, and I'm about to get a meth kit installed on mine... so... just show me someone with a direct fit and meth injection and I'll line up =].
My buddy who used to own a SRT-4 got one off of eBay for $210 shipped. He ahd to drill some mounting holes, but overall it was a great piece and works as well as the more expensive ones.
By "it" I meant the car not the fmic. I know in any huge collision I am hosed no matter what (crash bar or not) but its the slower ones I am concerned with. I don't want to scrap a car because of a 30 mph collision. I mean honestly with the flow rates of a 20g (which is pretty much what the s3 turbo is IIRC) where is this huge difference coming from? Can anyone give hard facts as to why it is better not just hearsay and speculation?
Uhm, did you expect a white paper that's certified by the League of Amazing Science Dudes or what? A large FMIC will reduce part throttle boost, and flow more air. The stocker is not good for S3, and a direct fit will be better, but a large FMIC is best of all for any larger turbo than stock. You're also providing additional cooling, which will help with holding HOM. The going wisdom, take it or leave it, is that if you want more than 350HP you will want to go with a large FMIC. Go with whichever you choose, but don't line up against another S3 SRT-4 with a large FMIC. The large FMIC will definitely provide 10-15 more HP and 15-25 lbs more TQ, they've been compared in the past on other sites.
Uh no I wasn't asking for the math and physics behind how the bfmic is going to be better. I was asking for the "why" behind the dfmic vs bfmic not just the standard "because you should" replies. You covered that nicely thank you.
Whats everyones view on a BFMIC on a stock turbo. Would it only help heat soak? Cause more lag I would imagine.
I have heard both sides where it is not worth it on a stock turbo, but I have also heard good gains on stock turbo. I personally plan on running a BFMIC on my stock turbo.
I think if you plan to stay on the stock turbo forever, then you'll be fine with a direct fit. A larger fmic could cause bigger pressure drops for a smaller turbo, but if you have a boost controller and aren't running PCM boost then you may not have to care.
Intercooler sprayer as in an aftermarket intercooler sprayer not the cheap intercooler sprayer toys come with that just sprays water from your windshield washer fluid resevoir. A true intercooler sprayer will cost anywhere from $299-$399. Companies such as NOS and NX are two companies for example that make intercooler sprayer which use Nitrous to cool the intercooler. Everyone as their own assumptions and opinions on direct fits vs bfmic. I've personally owned both and know what they are capable of. Granted a BFMIC will bring in more hp depending on what other performance mods you have but the direct fit brings some as well vs stock. Sometimes a BFMIC is an overkill for some setups. There are people running 50 trim setups on direct fit intercoolers. You just need to make sure that its efficient enough for your setup. Bigger is not always better. Some mods play hand in hand while others can hinder performance if they don't compliment the other mods. By the way to compare a direct fit intercooler vs a bfmic. You would need to find (2) completely stock SRT-4's, install a direct fit on one and a bfmic on other. Then run both cars monitoring temperatures within the intercoolers path. You can't have certain mods while another has different mods... both of you run and you say you beat him because you have a BFMIC and he has a direct fit. Proper testing would be how I mentioned above.
Point being, all things being equal, a Stage 3 car with a BFMIC with the mods to push 400HP will make more power overall than the same car with a direct fit. We agree on that right? No testing needed. Now if you're talking about an SST or maybe even a vanilla S3, then there might be some question as to which is a better intercooler but there should be little question about it given what the OP is looking to set up. As for the sprayer, I just don't see where that entered into the context in the first place. For the cost, $300, you could get a meth injection kit and make FAR more power.
Without a doubt I don't think anyone is arguing that. The path that this topic has taken is if you have a vanilla s3 car does a bfmic really buy you much more than a direct fit which I am still questioning. I'm trying to do some research to see flow rates of the s3 turbo (which is pretty much a 16g not a 20g thank u mains for correcting me) and then look at the rates and temp drop of an agp direct fit and a bfmic. In my eyes if that size of turbo will not fully utilize the bfmic is it really worth it?
Nate, one thing you gotta keep in mind is that you're not going to get 400hp on a vanilla S3 setup. You're going to need something like port work, cams, and/or meth or race gas, along with more boost. The boost and porting are going to increase your flow rates beyond "vanilla"... so again, it's more of a power question, if you plan to support 400HP+, you want a big FMIC. If you want 300HP on pump and 340HP on HOM, then a direct fit is perfect. A S3 turbo is not a "big turbo" in the sense that a 50 trim or 60 trim is, but it's big enough and capable of flowing enough to make a large FMIC a better choice than a direct fit. To get 400HP you're going to have to push 25-27psi at least, and that's a lot more than the vanilla S3 will typically push.
I had a CCA FMIC and I saw power gains with it. It may not have been alot but i will say that running a stage 2 wga before and after that my peak boost to me seemed to not spike as high on the same setting. I switched to an AGP WGA and I can safely say a stage 2 WGA and a big FMIC & 3'' TBE<AGP WGA & 3'' TBE. I sold it to Dysphagia cause he got a big turbo and needed it more then I did. <--Cool guy. I am in the market for a new one but I hae my eye on this CTI FMIC. I agree there is some great info in this thread. I think conversations like these are whats missing now from the other forums. Where instead of BS all day we can learn somthing from a thread.
