This Prius incident makes me kinda nervous.

Up until now I had been erring on the side of this pedal issue as a mechanical, or human error issue. However I think something more sinister is up at Toyota, and I don't think it is their fault. I am gonna peruse the Auto Engineer sites a bit to get some feedback but here is my feeling.

Yesterday a Toyota Prius was running along a stretch of San Diego freeway when it inexplicibly started accelerating on its own. Not just gradually but full throttle. Not many people know how these E-throttle's work but after fooling around with them and their redundant software something kinda rubbed me the wrong way. You see, under typical cruise the E-throttle is a switch that delivers an electrical signal proportional to its angle, the signal is then interpreted by the powertrain control module and TCS controller (to determine current slip) then the proper angle is given to the throttle body.

All you guys with LX and Caliber's know that when these systems do not correlate to established angle readings the cars go into limp home mode. If the PCM fails and sends improper signals to the Throttle body it will simply close. Toyota's work the same way, the only way to cause the electronics to keep the throttle open without triggering these redundancies is too rewrite the software. Electrical interference cannot change parameters, it can corrupt data and the system will just not work. The only published data regarding runaway vehicles that have been positively confirmed have happened in Southern California, and several in San Diego. This current incident also had the brakes fail to stop the car, that is impossible on cars with mechanical linkages, but the Prius is computer controlled. Even the transmission was computer controlled. The Prius has three computers, The TCS/ABS module, PCM and the transmission/electrical motor controller. All three failed at once in this incident.

That is statistically impossible except for one theory, and it might come to light now the engineers have this gentleman's car. Sabotage...I think there is an assembly line worker or engineer that is altering the software in these cars. Many of these cars are brand new, and both highly published incidents involve cars with less than 1000 miles on the odometer.


Just something to ponder...a lot of people have alot to gain from Toyota going down. I find it hard to believe that the pioneers of E-throttle, people who have paved the way for every other vehicle equipped with the system to have so many problems in one distribution area. You just cannot go from having a car working then go to having three seperate control modules rewrite themselves....Someone is messing with them.

 

Before you get all conspiracy theory, remember the woman with the Lexus who I think was in Tennessee who gave testimony last week or the week before about her experience.

 

Conspiracy theories are often waived off as craziness. Not sayin, just sayin...you never know. When i first heard about the issues, I told a friend..Ew, i bet someone will be working 24/7 to fix this...He said, Yea, and I bet he gets finished in a few hours, or is fired....That was over a month ago, and they still haven't figured it out.

 

I'm not one for conspiracy theories but in light of the facts and the engineering problems posted by this incident, I see no other reason. You can't screw up three seperate computers by accident in one car and not do it in every other one. The only external interferance would be the programmer.

If all likely conclusions fail then the only remaining possible reason however unlikely must be the truth. It is statistcally more likely that the sun would go nova tomorrow than have two of these cars do this randomly. They were deliberately programmed, regardless of motivation.

As far as the woman from Tenessee is concerned, she was part of a circus act called congress. The same thing happened to Audi in the 80's, they held congressional hearings with witnesses too. It ended up being human error.

They will find out now, they have an intact car that is 100% confirmed to have done this. That car will be stripped to the bone until they find the problem. But it is sure as shit not a mechanical issue, and if it is a defect then everybody needs to worry because a lot of these PCM control units are in other cars of different makes including Chryslers.

 

It is fishy that initially they tried to pass this off as a floor mat problem, and then it was a sticky pedal problem and its like all signs point to something computer related, but Toyota's stance has been deny deny deny. You'd think they'd want to jump in, figure it out, and fix it instead of freaking out existing customers and running off potential customers.

Granted I don't think people who know anything about driving buy Toyota anyway, its usually the people that their parents drove Toyota or they want "reliability" or to pay less for gas. Driving safety and handling always come last to those types and well, now they've got this to worry about.

 

Well Toyota makes more than just Camry's and Prius Hybrid's (The most souless vehicles on earth ) They make the best mid-sized truck (Tacoma) and the Awesome FJ Cruiser, RAV4 (my mom's out accelerates a stock CSRT) and the IS-F. My Tacoma has almost no driving aids except TCS(Same as ESP). Fortunately my Mom's Rav4 was built in Japan, so it should have no problems (no one has made a sustantiated claim about the JT Vin cars).

They are stupid reliable, watch what Top Gear did with a Hilux :lol:
For the non enthusiast they are pretty good cars, if a bit like a houshold appliance. I'll never own a Camry, I'd tear my hair out from sheer boredom.:grin: I 100% agree with you about excessive driving aids, its like most Americans hate driving so much that they wan't to feel disconnected. But this is not just Toyota, these electronic aids are like a disease permiating our automobiles. This is one of the reasons why I sold the CSRT, the NSRT was much more a driver's car. I'll drive my appliance to work, but on the weekends the driver needs to be rewarded.

But this is not about brand preferance, I would not wish this upon any company. I think Toyota honestly is perplexed by the problem. I honestly don't think they know what is wrong (this is from talking with the Toyota dealers around town). They issued recalls based on previous incidents with other companies. They might have been so reliable that they forgot how to deal with a defect. This is something that has effected 1 out every 200,000 cars, you can't repeat that in the lab. Wrong is wrong no matter the reason, but I smell rotten fish and my sense tends to wind up true. This is why I am gonna gather more evidence and see what I turn up.


I am not blind supporter of Toyota, I have only driven my Tacoma for 3500 miles and if you look at my sig you see that I have no brand loyalty. Hell my next car might be an Alfa! LOL

 

I don't know about you guys, but I'm gonna start taping aluminum foil on all my windows now. :shok:







LOL, You may have a point OP. It is rather odd.

 

You have the same PCM as my skittle, I think you are good :grin:


I would be more worried driving a world engine car. (Sebring, Caliber, Avenger Compass...etc)

 

They interviewed that guy today. I believe he said that the pedal went down and stayed there. He said he reached down with his hand and wasn't able to move it.

Now I'm guessing that the pedal was all the way up and reaching down there you can't really get a good idea of where it's at while you're driving the car at the same time. I'm guessing that it was all the way up and so when he tried to pull up on it, it wouldn't budge.

I think it's a hardware/software problem in the control. NO I don't think it's a conspiracy.

 

Hmm, I wonder if he got the recall fix? Maybe Toyota was right... I wonder why his brakes did'nt stop him, the Camry is far more powerful and Car and Driver was able to stop thier car at full throttle with both feet on the brakes in under 190ft. God this is a wierd deal.

 

Don't take everything at face value. Wait for the analysis.

He called 911. They told him to put it in neutral. He didn't do it because he was afraid of putting it into park. He was stressed, he doesn't sound like a gear head. He might have been pulling on the brake pedal when he was reaching down there... I don't know that I could reach any of the pedals with my hand while keeping my other hand on the wheel and driving a speeding car. I can only assume he is a thin guy with long arms

 

Anyone else heard of this? I have a friend who owns a Tundra, that will start its self for no reason! I'm talking about NO ONE IN THE TRUCK! and it will start and run (no, it does not have remote start.)! It will also trun is self off for no reason. I didn't believe it 'till I saw it for my self! The local dealership told him "Well it has some sort of a short!"

 

He took it in 2 weeks ago, and the dealer turned him around saying his car wasn't on the recall list. The car reached a max speed of 94mph. I hit that in my daily commute...:whistle: CHP shoulda pitted him hahaha.

 

Remember also that with hybrid cars, LEOs and EMTs are especially leery of being electrocuted when trying to extract occupants after an accident. I'm guessing if they'd used a pit maneuver, guy might have flipped and then it'd be "who wants to try and get him out?" I think the CHP handled it well all things considered.

 

I was being sarcastic I don't condone pitting an innocent old man at 90+ mph...

 

I figured. Just saying any sort of high speed interaction with a Prius could potentially get hairy real fast. Luckily they're pretty light and low powered relatively speaking, so something bigger like a CHP car could handle it the way they did. Very glad it didn't end up like that off-duty CHP officer last year.

 

Man, that's 2 serious and well documented Toyota incidents in San Diego. Those cars must hate sunshine or something...

 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-avalon-displays-unintended-acceleration-without-floor-mat.html

I'm jus' sayin.

 

Yeah, its not the floor mats. Every explanation they've been giving has gone on to be disproven and the more it drags out, the worse it looks for the company. I can understand not wanting to admit fault, but there's gotta be a limit. And yes, this whole incident is turning me off to new cars.

 

I'd say there is a very good possibility they've been working feverishly on this for a long time. Coming up with any explanation beats the hell out of saying "it's in the computer and we have no idea in hell of what the bug is yet." Buys you time and you hope you can find it before everything goes down the crapper.

Think about it. EVERY one of their cars is drive by wire. It's almost a sure thing that ALL their ECMs share at least some code. They're going to come out and say "we THINK it could be a software bug but we have no idea what it is yet"? If they have to recall every drive by wire car they have on the road they'll have to close the doors.