ok a couple of questions for ya all

Discussion in 'Engine & Performance Modifications' started by Amerrycan, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. Amerrycan

    Amerrycan New Member

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    I have been doing lots of research on forced induction and have a few questions. When using a stock bottom end have any of you had issue with the lan on the pistion rings??? If not how much boost are you pushing with the stock pistion's? From what I am looking at 5psi is about the max you can run with out the risk of loosing a pistion due to the small lan's. What are your thoughts and what have you been seeing out there. I am trying to decide if I am or need to change the rods and pistions when I do this. I am not trying to build a race car just a fast daily driver. My goal was 8 to 10 pounds of boost.
    Thx all
     
  2. cmn1

    cmn1 SRT and SVT

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    Have you seen YoungMedic23's Jeep? I believe he is running 8lbs on the stock engine. How much research have you really been doing? I believe the Vortech system runs 8 lbs. GripGrip is running a vortech also and put it on with over a 100,000 on the engine with heads and cam. I also think he put on a smaller pulley and is running more boost. Still running. 1bamfr is also running a vortech with heads and cam on a stock block.
     
  3. 1bad4dr

    1bad4dr Mr. Meany

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    While some have had success, others have had failures. It is never a question in "If" the engine will fail, it is "When" will it fail?

    Now, if you have the funds, I HIGHLY recommend that you forge the bottom end. This way you will never have worries of the "When"...

    I am motor 4. Granted only the first motor was my fault. lol

    Which F/I are you looking at getting? S/C, Turbo, N2O? If you are interested in a TT setup, Hellion (Vendor here) is looking for a test Jeep to complete their kit. They have already finalized the TT kit for the LX/LY platform on the 6.1L.

    If you are going S/C, Vortech is the best tested of the Centrifucals. Kenne Bell for the Twin Screws. JMO.
     
  4. StevoSRT

    StevoSRT Moderator

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    I am pretty much with big ron on everything he said lol....with my only addition being....if your NOT going to get a forged bottom end....you had better have a BAD ASS tune....
     
  5. 1bad4dr

    1bad4dr Mr. Meany

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    lol I knew I forgot to add something. hahaha Thanks for the addition Steve.
     
  6. Amerrycan

    Amerrycan New Member

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    LOTS of research!!!!! Per Mike at Vortech 5.5lbs at sea level is max with out any risks. He even told me they delayed the release for the 6.1 because they had somany issue with the pistion ring sliping on the 4.7L and some on the 5.7 due to the very small pistion lan. However the 6.1 has a slightly larger Lan so there is not as much risk.

    I was looking at a Vortech or a SMS since I am hosed for a techco. I am not a fan of the twin turbo since they are mounted in the rear there is to much lag for me. As for failure if it is set up propper there should be no issue's. I have a F350 that is peaking at 40psi and hold 36psi all day with lots of miles. Now I have smoked a few turbos due to high egt's and I kept pushing it. I really want to do a twinscrew but the dyno testing I have looked ay shows that a Centrifucal suffers les power loss on a hot motor about 40hp less depends on the test run over a twinscrew. From what I have found this is due to the twinscrew setting right on top of the motor and the heat is greater there. Where in a drag car there is alot more open area arround it so there is not suce a power loss. This is far from my first FI car it will be my fiffth. So I am not new to this. I just wanted to ask questions to see other ppls thoughts problems or lack there of before I jump in :p

    Regaurdless from what I am seeing from the few posts it does not look like ppl are having issues with pistion rings, lan's or the powdersteel rods.
     
  7. Quick

    Quick Mgmt. - I can't help you

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    I don't think ring land failure has anything directly to do with "how much boost". I think it has everything to do with how high the chamber temps go? Related, but indirectly. haha, I suspect you might be able to run higher boost if you were spraying at the same time. But yes, I've seen a good number of top ring land failures and ...ummm, 0? maybe? pistons with holes burnt in them. I can't recall anyone breaking a rod either (as the primary failure)?
     
  8. 1bad4dr

    1bad4dr Mr. Meany

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    Ring lands are a huge problem on the 6.1. They are near the top of the piston top and are an extreme weak link. Especially with a poor tune.

    And as for the Hellion kit. These twins mount right to the header. It is a beautiful kit and as some pep in the pop. lol STS is the rear mount.

    Centri's are a top end power whereas the Twin Screw is more of a low and mid range power adder that also holds at top end. I have had both. I started off with a Paxton kit and now have a Techco.

    I much prefer my Techco. This 2 ton land yacht gets going much quicker that the centri. And yes, they both have their pros and cons... My Techco never gets too hot, it just depends on the kit and what kind of cooling the blower has.
     
  9. Amerrycan

    Amerrycan New Member

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    Really header mounted you say??? i might just have to look into this then. I have never had a twinscrew and kinda would like to mess with one. All of my other FI cars have been turbo or twin turbo. I had a mazda b2000 with a rotary transplant with twin turbos on it. LOL was such a sleeper. God I miss that truck. :( As far as I can tell the SMS is and Techco are copies of each other. Is that correct?
     
  10. 1bad4dr

    1bad4dr Mr. Meany

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    Sort of. In the begining, SMS was to use the Techco, then the two companies parted ways. SMS made some design changes (rear mount air intake and more cooling ribs for the screws) to name a few. SMS is great as it has the most stealth (like the Techco) in OEM looks. Most people would never know it is a blower unless you point it out to them, haha.

    The Kenne Bell is by far the most efficient.

    If you are interested in the Hellion, let me know, they are local to me. As I said, Hellion is looking for an test Jeep to complete the kit. Downfall is that you will need to leave the Jeep with them for several weeks.

    here's the link to Hellion's website. It directs you to the LX/LY kit.

    http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/index.php/turbo-systems/162
     
  11. Amerrycan

    Amerrycan New Member

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    Yea I would love to talk to them It is not that far of a drive and I have 4 other cars LOL. I would like to see some pics of there work. Are the using a can tune or a custom tune? I have no issue leaving it for a while. I can PM you my number if needed.

    Thanks a Ton
    James

    edit LOL i missed the link
     
  12. 1bad4dr

    1bad4dr Mr. Meany

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    James, I edited my last post with a link to Hellion's website. Pix are there as well.

    I just sent Dave a PM linking him to this thread. Where are you located?

    Ron

    It is CMR tuned.
     
  13. Amerrycan

    Amerrycan New Member

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  14. 1bad4dr

    1bad4dr Mr. Meany

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    oh shit, 4 hours. haha Nice. I just talked to Dave and he will visit this thread at the latest, tomorrow. :)

    Yes, we are also friends. haha
     
  15. Amerrycan

    Amerrycan New Member

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    LOL I thought you just a sales man :p
     
  16. Hellion Motorsports

    Hellion Motorsports Supporting Vendor

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    I would be happy to discuss adapting the turbo system for your application and creating the prototype to expand our line. Please call me at the shop tomorrow (505)883-8388.

    Sincerely,
    -Dave
     
  17. 1bad4dr

    1bad4dr Mr. Meany

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    haha no sir. The CEO of my company once asked me to join his sales team. I respectfully declined. He then asked why and I said, "Because I have ethics". lol
     
  18. Amerrycan

    Amerrycan New Member

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    I will try and call tomarrow but it might be towards the end of the week before I can. I have a very crazy week at work.
     
  19. Mr MoPar

    Mr MoPar New Member

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    I have been running turbocharged FI on the 5.7 and 6.1 Hemi's for almost 4 years now. If you allow the combustion chamber temps to go unchecked, you will pop a ring land. There is no way I would run FI on these engines without water/meth spray. I put 36,000 on my 2006 stock internals 5.7 300C running 7 psi on the street and 9 psi at the track and I never had an issue. Without water/meth spray, you can see EGT's go up 250 to 300 degrees over stock. From what I have seen, very few people pay attention to their EGT's, and don't know how hot they are running, or they are pulling a butt load of timing to reduce the combustion chamber pressures which also reduces the temps somewhat.

    I currently have a 2008 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7, and it is turbocharged and it now has over 14,000 miles with the turbo installed, and it is currently the fastest stock internals 5.7 Cherokee. I run 7 psi on the street, and up to 9 psi at the track. In both cases, I run the factory ECU programming, and perform my own tuning with the iEMS3 engine management system (discussed in the sticky thread on tuning for part throttle boost).

    I have run 7 - 9 psi on the 6.1 without any issues, but again water/meth spray is crucial to keep the combustion temps down. I would not run over 9 psi on a stock 6.1 because I have seen numerous cases where the heads start to lift and the first sign is puking coolant out the overflow tank from combustion gasses leaking by the head gaskets into the water jacket.

    I have made a couple posts on here regarding tuning on FI, so a search on my screen name, one is a sticky. Tuning is also crucial to making your engine survive with FI as well.

    On a side note, Ron, I thought you were going to have Dave call me about closed loop boost fuel correction, or should I call him????
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  20. StnePny3

    StnePny3 Full Access Member

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    I all so think that a 2 ton land yacht needs a roots system. The KB is good. but, I'm leaning toward the Magnuson MagnaCharger. They have a long standing reputation. And the unit on there Challenger looks & works well. IMO.