I think this comparison will turn out to be more of a 275/40/20 (front) vs. 245/45/20 (front) comparison. My V's were on their last leg so after being unable to find any in stock and a 3k mile road trip coming up, I decided to go with the Invo's. I went with the 245's up front based on what I've seen some avid road racers going with on the LX platfrom. First, I ensured all my baselines for comparison were met. 36psi cold tire pressures, KW's damping set to 3 "clicks" from tightest, racing shoes, rear view mirror folded up (vision). I headed out to the "Eastlake Proving Grounds" to a 2.5 mile course I am intimately familiar with. My first turn, I felt like the tires had no air in them and that I no longer had sway bars. I thought "maybe I adjusted the damping the wrong way". I immediately pulled over to double check pressures and damping. I had it set the right way. I turned back around and started over. Again, I felt like the tires had low air pressure and I was not real confident throughout the course. I did lower the front end today two complete turns (from 14 threads to 10 threads showing). I think that's the first thing I'll change back and retest. I wouldn't think that a 1/4 -1/2 inch would make that dramatic of a difference. So that may be partially responsible for the ill handling. With the V's, as stated in previous threads, they are "confidence inspiring". I feel like I went from a road racing car to a muscle car in a tire swap. I'm going to tinker with air pressures, damping adjustments, and front ride height, to see if I can dial it in a bit more. The turn in does feel lighter now with the 245's, the road noise seems about the same (really quiet), stickiness based on three launches seems about the same. With the V's I paid $818 installed and road force balanced. The Invo's I paid $1067 installed and old school balanced. In hind site, I should have probably just got 275's all the way around. But, I wanted a little better turn in...and I got it....but at the cost of overall handling.
Great post Rick. So bottom line it for me ... you got better turn in but worse overall handling? You think the lower height possibly made for worse handling?? I would imagine that going from 275s down to 245s would make a big dif in handling, was the turn in that bad with the 275s??
You pretty much summed it up. WRT turn in. At low speeds (under 15mph) the turn in with the 275's feels heavy. But, above 15mph the 275's feel MUCH more "sure footed". I'm fairly certain that both tires would be almost identical handling wise if I had 275's on all corners. But, at $275 more, its a no brainer on which tire is more bang for the buck performance wise....the V's.
Gotcha. I have to say tho (and please don't shoot me, lol) I LIKE the F1s. I do. Maybe it's because I've never had 20" tires before but I really think they stick good, damn good, good enough for a 4500 lb tank to stick with an S2000 in the twisties (when I was stock too). Not to change the subject but what am I missing bout the F1s that everyone else isn't, why's everyone so down on them?
I think it has to do with available sizes and the price tag. No doubt they are a great performance tire.
I never ran my invos at 36psi on the 245s. I think max i ran was 32...Also if you want to try out a set of 275/40s on the front we can swap my rears for your fronts for a bit...
Now that might be a good idea Rick, see if what you're experiencing actually is because of the tire size.
After having the INVOs through 6 tires and now 5 months into my Vreds - I can say I like the Vreds better in every way (including launch stickiness) I also noticed the INVOs wore pretty fast which I am not seeing with the Vreds.
How many miles you talkin Bob? Rick wore his Vs out in a little over 15K and that's not much in my book. What mileage you getting?? And how do you feel about the F1s??
I wish someone would do a comparo of the Toyo Proxes4's with the Invos. Like Scott, I thought the F1's were a good tire but wore reeeeeaalllly quick. Bang for the buck, the 4's still have another race season on them and stick pretty good for their treadwear rating. I like them and would consider them again if there wasn't so much hoopla about the V's. Personally, I'd like to try them but think the Proxes tread pattern looks a lot better FWIW.
Well, I have about 7k on them. The fronts look brand new, but for some reason the rears are wearing prematurely.
I just went out and raised my front KW's back up a quarter inch (Pre-Invo height). I did another run at the Proving Grounds and same outcome. I then went back and as John recommended lowered the pressures. I dropped them to 35psi hot. The handling DID improve with the lower psi. Dramatically, NO. But, manageable. Not the 275's all the way around but still good. I came back and lowered the front end quite a bit so I'm WAY lower than Jason's car (LOL). I have 6 threads remaining on the bottom. For some reason, I'm scraping a bit more entering the garage. I might bump her up a knotch..but still lower than Jason. The next step is to borrow Johns 275 Invos!
Well, we may be able to use the transitive property to figure this out. I'm at the end of my second set of Vred's. I've had lots of seat time (30K miles) and 500 miles at VIR's full course. Nice blend of technical bits, but two nice straightaways to let the beast stretch her legs a bit. I'll be putting on the Toyo's next, 275/40's all 'round (they were out of square ones / bad joke I know). I can give you my feedback on these vs. the Vred's. If they're even close to the Vred's I think we can safely say they're better than the Invos.
