Didn't JMatt burn up his clutches? I thought he was one of the driving forces behind beefing up the tranny.
maybe you have been the lucky one ron???? lol i understand your point from the aspects of shr, but after talking to bill and lou, and a few others at the shin dig, it did not seem to me at all that anyone was trying to move a new product. just the opposite actually. only talk was of the issue, why it happens, and what the potential fix is. that it. as for you being over 600 hp, i do not doubt that, but your power does not come on like that of instant n2o or a twin screw. yours in more linear and smooth. as for that screw job with juice....... better add an new tranny to that list!!! dahahahahahahaa yes.... an a nasty one at that!!!! i feel for the person who buys this car off of a used car lot!!!! hahahahaahaha
I was in no way insuating that was the tactic, but I like to invision all possibilities. As for Lou, the 5.7 tranny is not entirely the same as the 6.1. Or am I confused. lol I am not the only one who has been right at or above 600rwhp for the past year. I am leaning more towards higher shift points being the cause. If you remember, when I ditched one tune and went with anothers tune, my shift points were raised (considerably). My 1-2 and 2-3 shifts were so hard, it threw my tranny into limp mode. I have since lowered my shift points and all is good. Yes I understand the difference between centri and twin (second time I said this). But I will tell you, when I am launching at the track, I am in boost (5psi ish). Yes the Torque curve on the twin will be more of a immediate pull than the centrif, but I am not convinced that 600 is the threshold. Again, something else is going on, or a combination of things. IMO I am no expert, but I would like to see the facts and annalysis of the facts that caused the two issues. Oh yea, Turbo's have power curves similar to a Twin Screw (sometimes even greater) once in boost. Where are the Turbo guys with blown tranny's? Anyway, to get back on topic to John's Original Post, John, all three will be a matter of personal opinion. Not one is better than the other. They all have their pro's and con's. Question is, what is it you really want? Is your motor designed to handle high boost or low boost? Go from there.
my, my ronnie.....a bit testy maybe???? hehehehehehehe the thing is that there seems to be so many variables in the equation and it seems like there is not a lot of consistency to issues from one set up to another. this inconsistency makes it difficult to pinpoint potential causes to critical issues or fail points. this is just my humble opinion though!! :kiss:
I never had any problems with my tranny when I was making mid 600 hp. the pistons took a crap on me but thats not there fault. So how loud is your guys vortech blowers at idle are they CARB legal?
Anyway, to get back on topic to John's Original Post, John, all three will be a matter of personal opinion. Not one is better than the other. They all have their pro's and con's. Question is, what is it you really want? Is your motor designed to handle high boost or low boost? Go from there Ron I would love a d1 but I dont need any more things to make me stand out. A loud whistleing noise would get me red flagged in a week. I want more power I just cant do nitrous any more. I am done with the bottle I want power all the time not when my pressures right. As for the motor and about of boost. I will change what ever I need to I am doing a fix right now with the same parts that failed me. but I will rebuilt again once I get the F/I unit. I am aiming for 700hp with out nitrous.
john - the one set up i have heard did not sound overly noisey at all. i actually thought is sounded pretty cool!!!!
Ryan's, Drew's, and Jason's are hardly even noticeable. If my memory serves me correctly you can't even hear Ryan's. Jason's and Drew's are REALLY subtle. My one question would be, does the whine increase with boost?
I know that Builderbill and Eddie have only seen from experience transmission failures and have been plugging away for some time to come to a resolve. I think the 600hp mark is a guesstimate since every car is different and so is every driver. From my understanding, Lou drives his car like a rental and was the perfect test car in their minds.
Hey guys, Sorry I missed this thread! Ok...we had 6 vehicles testing the transmissions, both Jeeps and LX's. Our testing showed that a stock NAG1 was fine up to around the 600rwhp threshold. As a Mechanical Engineer, I absolutely realize that transmissions are rated in torque capacity. Problem is that most guys talk in rwhp. We needed a threshold number that people could easily relate with, therefore the rwhp numbers. The testers vehicles included a very wide range of builds since we would all agree in theory that the different power makers (blowers, turbos, spray) make their power in much different ways. Every tester over 600 rwhp burnt up the stock clutches and most guys broke F2 sprag. My 426 that puts out less than 600 rwhp still has no transmission problems. I sure don't know why JMatt's NAG1 held up. I wish he would have been a tester for us so we could have pieced together what the difference was. Our 1st build of the test transmissions resulted in plugged filters as the steel core in the single sided Kevlar clutchs located in the K2 clutch pack were designed way too thin by yours truely. Terrible idea. The redesigned K1 & K3 worked perfectly. The 2nd iteration modified the K2 Kevlar clutch and is still being abused by Lou1355 today. The production NAG1 units will be delivered next week. Thanks for letting me straighten this up Chris. Oh...there is no 5.7 trans and 6.1 trans...only one version. And the raised shift point being a contributing factor in all this....interesting theory! Now back to the FI topic! Bill [email protected] 704 451-6332
Bill, can you elaborate on this? It DOES have a lot to do with the raised shift points I'd imagine...correct?
Well, on the Jeeps, we can NOT raise our shift points electronically as the LX's. That said, one of our testers was a 426 Jeep with a 275 shot that ran 11.17. Now his shifting in auto stick was much higher than the 6,000-6,200 that is stock. His shifted at closer to 6,500-6,700. I do not know the cause of the higher shift, potentially the electronics could not keep up with the engine reving up so quickly??? His stock trans was giving up pretty quickly after just 6 hard passes and of course some street punch downs I bet! I don't know what Lou1355 shifts at, and I bet he doesn't either! Lou has a lot going on in his car during a pass. Interesting theory on the shifting, I doubt that many people want to short shift or lower the shift point with the Predator. On my 426 (hopefully supercharged someday as I am low compression) I would love to stay with the 6,000-6,200 shift point. I'm happy not spinning the motor any faster. Bill
Very nice write up Bill. And again, I do apologize for my earlier comments. I never meant to suggest foul play. EVER! I have MUCH respect for you and Eddie to ever suggest anything bad. You guys are the PIONEER's of Transmission development and I would NEVER want to take that away from you guys. Maybe we can talk on the phone later this week to discuss more in detail the higher shift points and what I was experiencing once upon a time. hehe Thanks again for sharing your findings. Maybe we should make a seperate Transmission thread?
I did not take your comments as negative. We are all working towards making these beasts special. Yepper, I'll start a separate thread for the NAG's. Give me a call anytime. Bill [email protected] 704 451-6332
Hello all! If you have any specific questions that have not been answered on any of the forums about these transmissions, please give me a call. I will be glad to answer all your questions! 888-244-4364 I can understand the concern about hyping up a product that may or may not be needed. There are a lot of companies that just want to make a sale. Although I do like to make sales , I will never sell you something that you do not need. I/we (SHR/Paramount) want customers/friends for life. Thanks!
Is there a COMPLETE list somewhere of all the possible Superchargers and Turbo Chargers that are available for the 6.1?
Not a complete list, but here is what I know of: Available: Vortech supercharger Southern Hotrod/Harrop supercharger Procharger supercharger Paxton supercharger CIS turbo Prototypes seen, but not available: STS turbos I-charger supercharger Saleen supercharger Rumored: RDP's new billet supercharger Kenne-Belle supercharger
