Ok, I kind of snapped over on the DiabloSport forum. So I figured I'd bring it back to the C :friends:. I know SOMEBODY has the answer to this. It kind of went like:
dave - i have zero quantitive information or data, but i can say i have seen first hand a srt charger go on a dyno, pull back to back 385rwhp while running a canned predator tune and then pull fuse 11, while still on the dyno, and lose 14 hp on the very next back to back pulls!!!!
dave - i did forget to mention that i do notice a somewhat sluggish response in my car when i have been lugging it around in slower commuter type traffic for long periods of time. i always can feel a difference in the car when i reset my adaptive on the pred. not sure if i am actually doing anthing, but i do experience a noticeable improvement in drivability and throttle response after an adaptive reset. not pulling fuse 11, but rather with my pred.
Hey chris im in the same boat as you with no quantitive info but ive seen a srt pull 399 then do the fuse and pull 411...
possible ron, but heat soak is probably not it. the car sat long enough to cool before the next runs.... if i remember correctly we made a note to check operating temps just as a means to compare. either way, i have always felt my car to be more "snappy" after a reset on the pred!!
I am disagreeing with you Chris because the temps were not exact same from one to the other. It is next to impossible. Just because one looked at the temps before the dyno started, does not mean that it was the same temp once the car was started and began the wheel rolls on the drums. You see, the temps can cool in the radiator and hoses when engine is off, but once the engine is started, the cool outside water now mixes with the hot water still cooking within the block. Try the above and you will see what I am talking about. Now, I am not saying that pulling #11 did not kill HP, it could have been a combination of things. But trying to make an assumption from a dyno day is stretching it a bit. What is a dyno for? Come on, say it with me, TUNING purposes only. lol
hey putz, i thought i made myself perfectly clear...... I HAD NO QUANTIFIABLE INFO!!!!! simply recounting an experience from watching another car on a dyno!!!!! as for engine temps...... please....... the length of time this car sat on the dyno while people debated and finally pulled the fuse was ample time for it to cool. it spent more time rolling on the drums for the first two pulls! hahahahahahahaa who loves ya buddy!!!!! :love:
Unbelievable....2 1/2 years on various forums, countless money and hours spent on your cars and you two are still at square one, rehashing the dyno pulls/heat soak/Fuse #11 !!!! Priceless!! When you were young and bored you could pull your puds....this how you cope now?? Sorry, been gone from the forums for a long time now, just couldn't resist!
I believe the only adaptives you can reset are your TCM adaptives with the Predator. I was with DynoSteve when he "programmed" my TCM after my Dyno tune. He reset the TCM adaptives then.... He took my car out on the street (I was wth him) and did several (about 5) 1-2-3 and 3-2 hard pulls and shifts to about 60. I am going to try to get Steve to tell me the procedure so i can "re-program" it if it gets soft again. The TCM responded very well. Shifts became smoother but sharp and the car became way more responsive. I was amazed at the change.
Ron, you're assuming the ECT sensor is outside the block? I wouldn't think so since you can watch the coolant temps go up before the T-stat opens. Chris saw a drop with the fuse pull. John saw an increase with the fuse pull. They both could be due to the exact same thing. Without knowing what is being reset and what the default values are immediately following a reset it's entirely possible that it could help one tune and hurt another. Note that in both cases it could be undesireable. With the loss the engine might just not be making the power it could and with the gain it could be on the harmful side of where you want it to be.
I wonder the same thing, even to the point that the adaptives may be moved back and forth with the tune data. I mean a complete CMR tune can be stored and moved with the Predator. DynoSteve from RDP Motorsports said his tunes were larger in size than most, I haven't looked to see size yet, but I have one of his CMR tunes now. The reason I made the earlier post about the TCM adaptives is 'cause I believe it to be close to the PCM in adaptives. The PCM (and TCM) can be "trained" to some extent. (I guess that is why they are called adaptives.....lol.) If you make 5-6 hard 0-75 passes your PCM (and TCM) adaptives will be "trained" for more aggresive driving. Regrettably, how long it lasts is hard to predict. Fuse #11 pull (and/or the "Full Reset Procedure" I have posted before) may reset some of the adaptives but which ones would be nice to know and does it reset them to a better level than the 0-75 passes? Maybe we need to ask a CMR programmer. Did you ever get an answer from DiabloSport about what they know?
Highly doubtful. The data tables/adaptives would be set to some default values initially by the executable code. I suppose if you knew the address of these constants within the executable code you could change them but I VERY seriously doubt the PCM image was reverse engineered to that extent. I believe the reverse engineering was to find the address of data tables and constants in the data area. I do not believe any executable code is changed with a tune. I assume you mean close in function and not physically? I don't know if the adaptive parts of the TCM are physically in the PCM or the TCM module. I'd lean towards them being in the TCM to give it modularity and the ability to be controlled by different PCMs. Ok, here is where I start to cringe... I know about the fuel adaptive that reside in the PCM. The fuel adaptives are NOT changed during open loop WOT mode operation. The fuel adaptives ARE used to calculate the fuel for open loop WOT mode operation. Beyond that is speculation. Whether there are any other adaptives is speculation. Blown7 said there are 5 adaptive memory areas. That doesn't mean that they're used. Just that they were designed into the hardware. Again you have drifted past the assumption that these adaptives exist at all and what they might effect. You said "adaptives", plural... Nobody is talking.
Thanks, glad to be back man! Many new things have happened since I left...Diablo Predators, Vortech S/C's, I-chargers, looks like I need to get back on the mod train!!
Dave, Here is a VERY interesting read.... Not all adaptives are reset on PCM power down....plus more. It even explains how some of the adaptives work. It gets interesting about halfway down page 1 (and on page 2) after this statement:"Be aware that a PCM reset will not necessarily erase the adaptive learning tables in the PCM. Many manufacturers allow the PCM to maintain corrections to fuel trim, idle control and transmission shifting in memory." PCM adaptives info (It was written in 1998 but may not be to far off) : http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_199807/ai_n8784319/pg_5 Diagnostic Trouble Code list: http://www.edgeproducts.com/product_images/customer_support_article-pdf-39.pdf
Well, not all that interesting. It's 7 years older than our cars. Some general principles/conventions might have a little more of a likelyhood to have been carried over though. I think what they mean by a PCM reset is a software reset. Pulling the fuse would be the same as disconnecting the PCM and a hardware reset. Adaptive tables are going to be in volatile ram and wouldn't survive a power cycle (of the PCM).
Then the adaptive tables are going to be reset to some default value? This means the Fuse 11 pull could change the cars performance, but not necessarily to the better? I assume we are not even adding the fact that certain codes can cause PCM "counter measures", which are worked into the long-term adaptive tables. These "counter measures" are to compensate for the problem (that caused the code) by reducing engine power in some way to protect the engine. Then, even after fixing the problem, the car will run like crap till the long-term adaptives "learn" that the problem was fixed. Have you ever tried the "deluxe" reset procedure that involves about 3 fuse pulls and a long key cycle?
In case you haven't read it and maybe want to try it.... here it is. I do not own the original rights to this procedure. I just cleaned it up and made it more understandable. ++Start++ SRT8 PCM Reset Technique..but should work on all LX vehicles. Step 1: Open the hood of the vehicle and open the covered fuse box on the passenger side of the vehicle. Step 2: Remove the following fuses and set them aside: 11; 14; and 16 These are labeled on the underside of the fuse box cover in a mirrored-layout fashion. Fuse 16 is a Dark-Blue 15amp fuse found on the far right of the box Fuse 14 is a Beige color 25amp fuse Fuse 11 is a Neon Yellow 20amp fuse Make sure to note the colors...the box lid with the fuse #s reads in reverse and can be confusing. Pay attention to the next key cycles and number of chimes in the following Steps! Step 3: Insert your key into the ignition and turn the key to ON. Wait for the initial sequence of lights and chimes to complete. Do not turn the key to 'Off' until you have reached Step 5. Step 4: Without turning the key to 'OFF', turn the key to the 'START' position and hold it there until you hear a single chime. The engine will not attempt to start, this is completely normal. After the chime, release the key from the 'START' position back to 'ON' without cycling the key. Repeat this step one more time, turning the key to 'START' and holding it until you hear the chime. Once the second chime has sounded, cycle the key back to the 'OFF' position and remove your key. Step 5: Return to the fuse box under the hood and reinstall the fuses, paying close attention to replacing the correct fuses to their original location. Close up the box, and start your car. You have now completely reset the PCM's adaptive memory, as well as cleared any stored Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's). ************ Side Note: Some people have stated they have a Beige 25 AMP fuse for #11. Don't understand this..but. My Opinion: Using this procedure, my car seemed to perform a lot better than just the Fuse #11 pull. 1-2 shift was crisper and it felt stronger. ++END++
