The O2 sensor reading looked promising to me as well. Unfortunately, you can't count on that reading changing when you're spraying N2O. The reading changes for the blip when the injectors stop. But with N2O, you're not going to get a reliable drop like that, as you're still spraying both oxygen and fuel. Because everyone is tuned differently, you won't know if they go lean during that moment, or go rich. But keep going. There's tons of great thinking going on in this thread. Here's an idea. The MSD RPM window switch has two outputs. One supplies ground in the right conditions, the other supplies 12V. We can trigger a circuit when that reading changes at the top end of the selected RPM band. I think that would solve the "turn off nitrous" part of the logic. Delay relays exist. We could simply wire in a delay relay so the MSD box triggers the relay to turn off the RPM signal, so the window switches see 0 RPM. Then, after the delay relay's time is up, the circuit turns back on, the window switches read the RPM, and the nitrous starts to flow again. The issue is finding the right delay relay, and one that has a programmable delay, and programming the right amount of delay. At a minimum, this type of setup would be pretty repeatable.
Probably only want the delay at the top of the window so you might need to differentiate between window top cutoff and window bottom cutoff. Not sure how you'd do that. TPS wouldn't work. Is there a analog wire telling the transmission to shift or is it all digital messages over the bus? Like maybe from the TCM to the transmission?
Yep all digital thats the sucky part. There just isn't a good analog signal anywhere. Well maybe let me think ....... this is a long shot if the hardwires from the TCM to the transmission has separate wires for all the shifting solonoids that may be a good place to start, at least using those in some fashion you definatly wouldn't be spraying during say the 1-2 shift solonoid on........ or the 2-3 where all these problems are coming from to start with Do you guys have a upshift light in the EVIC like the Jeeps?
That's what I was thinking. Can't be bus all the way to inside the transmission. Probably only to the TCM and then analog wire from there. Yes, we have an upshift light. I noticed it about a year after getting my car. Small, yellow, waaay down there in the corner of the display... something you're sure to notice while hanging on with both hands trying to keep the car going straight.
Um, maybe. It's not actually a separate light. Just text/graphics on the display. might not be anything analog from the PCM to there.
True it's only a bit on the Can Bus but it could be used as a trigger. On another note here's a copy and paste of a NAG1 tidbit The TCM controls the shift solenoid valves for modulating shift pressures and gear changes. Relative to the torque being transmitted, the required pressures are calculated from engine load conditions, engine rpm, vehicle speed and transmission fluid temperature. The following functions are programmed into the TCM: • Shift program • Downshift safety • Engine management intervention • Torque converter clutch • Adaptation So maybe for a start modifying the trans temperature, that will create a whole new shifting stratagy. The real kicker is everything is a "Hypothetical" calculation either by the PCM or TCM so there are no "easy" adjustments. Like I stated earlier the shift solonids in the tranny body all are activated by a PWM signal so even that isn't a definate "On" or "Off" signal. Jeff
Jeff, As you know:secret: I will have the "Super NAG1" shipped out late this week to a 426 sprayed (250+ shot) Jeep. It will be immediately installed and heavily thrashed on. The ultimate would be if we can spray right through 2-3 etc. Bill
So if you solved the shift problem with a different or beefed up transmission is there still a motor issue if you spray through the shift while the injectors are turned off? Sure you're spraying a wet shot but it won't be near as wet as it was.
Well we think the tranny is bulletproof, and as for how it's being sprayed I can't answer. And how well everything will work will be tested. :dunno2: As I said before making a NAG Big HP tranny isn't the hard part, it's getting into the PCM/TCM logic and change all the shifting stratagy that will take time, but we are diligently working on it.
But what about the MOTOR? The charge will go very lean while the injectors are off? You're tuning for afr and spark with the injectors on. Sounds like MSD's switch assumes the throttle plate is closed or changes during shifts which isn't the case..
Cool beans, Jeff is in this thread :thumb: I have to wonder if shifts would be faster without the N20 kit being armed. If you are spraying air and fuel into a motor that is still spinning it increases the time that it takes RPMs to drop back down and the transmission completing the shift. This could also be the reason we think the shift is sloppy, its sloppy because its still trying to rev :hmm:
This is all good info. I would like to know the answer to the motor question as well. If the injectors stop firing between shifts what is the "drier" shot of nitrous doing to the motor? I wonder if its even long enough to hurt anything? We need to see what Dave thinks?
It shouldnt be a dry shot at all, injectors close but fuel solenoids are still open. Chris, you have a wideband you will see the temps spike(a/f ratio goes lean) even if only for a split second. I have to believe that spark is also coming to a stop, otherwise you would have a backfire as the oxygen eats the remaining fuel downstream. (Kinda like the pop when you turn on oxygen too fast on a torch):blowup:
You mean the spark is still there right? Otherwise there wouldn't be a problem with power through the shift (might be a big problem in the cats if you still have them). How about knock? Just how much gas is the wet system adding compared to what comes out of the injectors?
Well that certainly a logical thought that in stock configuration the TCM was originally programed to 'know" the PCM would cut fuel (hence power) during the shift so it has time to open/close all the needed solonoids to prevent clutch slippage and upshift properly, With the added aftermarket N2O systems it still is adding fuel/Nitrous (making power)when the PCM "thinks" the engines not making power. Very good thought. On the second comment on the PCM cutting spark.... Most new systems will cut fuel but not spark as unburned fuel (if there is any ) will wash down the cylinder walls and also create bad emissions readings. I have yet to test if in fact the ignition coils are still energized at redline. J
